ACC/Roadsafe course - I feel shortchanged

**Old Steve** · 16th August 2010, 19:21

In May, I took a Roadsafe motorcycle course organised by the ACC, they in fact paid half of the costs. This course was fantastic, about 1/4 to 1/3 theory and the rest practical exercises on slow speed stability and turning, cornering, braking, situational awareness, path planning, etc. I think this course has definitely increased the chances that I'll survive on my bike.

Today, I went to book my 6R test. I produced the certificate I received at this ACC organised motorbike safety course, and found that the Roadsafe "Rider Development" course isn NOT an approved course in terms of having your 6R time reduced. So it looks like the full 6 months on my 6R.

I cannot understand how the ACC can run a course which is not approved as a defensive driving/riding course? I rang the local ACC road safety co-ordinator and she said they filled the course anyway without it being an approved course.

Now don't get me wrong, this was a fantastic course and I feel more confident and capable after having taken it. However I feel that ACC should use a course which is approved in terms of 6R time reduction. I don't think that 100% theory defensive driving courses where there is no practical experience (and reading the forums I believe these do exist) are worth the paper you write on. Only a course which involves practical exercises, like the Roadsafe course, provide the experience which learner riders need.

So, if you're an "L" rider looking at a defensive riding course and ACC are offering a course in your locality, ask "IS THIS AN APPROVED DEFENSIVE RIDING COURSE WHICH WILL GET ME A REDUCTION ON MY RESTRICTED LICENSE?"

However, I would do the Roadsafe course again as I think it was so good it stood on it's own merits. I do just feel a little shortchanged that ACC didn't arrange for the course to be an approved defensive riding course, or advise us when we took the course that it wasn't (see EDIT below).

EDIT: 'Cos I've spent 3 months expecting that I'll get my six months restricted license halved.

**dynamite9585** · 16th August 2010, 19:32

thanks for the heads up, havn't heard of those courses but will keep an eye out.
my current question is i did a defensive course 8 years ago to cut down my R period for the cage.
does that still count?

**Old Steve** · 16th August 2010, 19:35

I think it has to be within 5 years. Though car courses count towards a reduction in your motorcycle restricted time. Check the Road Code.

**Roadsafe Nelson** · 16th August 2010, 19:47

If you want a licence time reduction course, then you have to do either the NZTA "Street Talk Course" or the AA "Defensive Driving Course"

Both courses involve an hour practical session. The courses both contain extremely valuable content for new drivers/riders, and as a refresher course for people who have been driving/riding for some time! 80% if driving/riding is attitude!

ACC & some Councils heavily subsidise several rider training companies across NZ. These courses are not designed to reduce licence time, & are not advertised as offering such.

**FastChk** · 17th August 2010, 10:07

Originally Posted by Old Steve

I think it has to be within 5 years. Though car courses count towards a reduction in your motorcycle restricted time. Check the Road Code.

I did both of these courses - the ACC one to build up my survival skills on the motor bike and the Defensive driving course to cut down my time. It does seem a little crazy that the only time during my defensive driving course they actually referred to a motorcycle was as a "moving hazard" the same as any other vehicle on the road. Hopefully the powers that be will see the benefits of accrediting the ACC course with the required qualifications - would definately encourage everyone to do this course (regardless of whether it cuts your time down or not....it may one day actually lengthen your time........ on earth

)

**duckonin** · 17th August 2010, 18:39

Originally Posted by dynamite9585

thanks for the heads up, havn't heard of those courses but will keep an eye out.
my current question is i did a defensive course 8 years ago to cut down my R period for the cage.
does that still count?

Nope !! only three years for a DDC. it really is a crock of shit, as if you have forgotten what you learn't....

**dynamite9585** · 18th August 2010, 00:10

Originally Posted by duckonin

Nope !! only three years for a DDC. it really is a crock of shit, as if you have forgotten what you learn't....

no i remember alot of it, but reality is that ALOT of it is just common sence that you learn anyway

**duckonin** · 18th August 2010, 09:58

Originally Posted by dynamite9585

no i remember alot of it, but reality is that ALOT of it is just common sence that you learn anyway

Yes you are right ....My meaning was (incase the meaning is taken wrong) after doing the DDC the cert expired after three years, that is the crock of shit, the same as a first aid cert dead after two years, you do not forget most of what you learn, once you have done the course and paid your money why should it expire? maybe an upgraded DDC would justify that..

**PrincessBandit** · 18th August 2010, 13:06

Originally Posted by Old Steve

..... car courses count towards a reduction in your motorcycle restricted time.

Yep they sure do. Hubby did one (due to the fact that he was on an exemption at the time to ride my bandit while still on his learners) and he said it was the biggest waste of time and money for him in regards to anything to do with motorcycle issues. The class was full of naughty young boys having to do it as part of their "rehabilitation" for traffic offences. It did cut his R to 3 months though.

**Maha** · 18th August 2010, 13:33

Originally Posted by Roadsafe Nelson

If you want a licence time reduction course, then you have to do either the NZTA "Street Talk Course" or the AA "Defensive Driving Course"

Both courses involve an hour practical session. The courses both contain extremely valuable content for new drivers/riders, and as a refresher course for people who have been driving/riding for some time! 80% if driving/riding is attitude!

ACC & some Councils heavily subsidise several rider training companies across NZ. These courses are not designed to reduce licence time, & are not advertised as offering such.

For future reference Jen, do you offer up either of those courses?

**Roadsafe Nelson** · 18th August 2010, 13:52

Originally Posted by Maha

For future reference Jen, do you offer up either of those courses?

Yes, I do.

I am Nelson's provider of the NZTA 'Street Talk Course'. Being both a motorcycle riding instructor & a car driving instructor, I build hazard awareness & observation skills of both riders & drivers into the course material. Which other course participants might not be fortunate enough to receive, because most providers of the courses are not motorcycle instructors.. only car.

People on here need to understand.. Neither the AA Defensive Driving, or the NZTA Street Talk course are designed as "motorcycle" courses. They are general courses designed to raise people's awareness in: what makes a safer driver, risk & reality, human risk factors, managing change in one's own behaviour, hazard awareness & observation skills & techniques, & preparation for the full licence test.

It is unfortunate that some people regard these courses as a waste of time.. however as the qualities of a safe driver are: being cool/calm; aware/alert; obeying road rules; confident, but not overly; respectful; not tired/drunk/drugs; experienced/trained; & stick to the speed limits.. people in the courses learn that 80% of driving.. is one's attitude!!

there is an old saying that goes something like... those who squark the loudest.. have the most to learn....

**duckonin** · 18th August 2010, 14:03

Originally Posted by Roadsafe Nelson

Yes, I do.

I am Nelson's provider of the NZTA 'Street Talk Course'. Being both a motorcycle riding instructor & a car driving instructor, I build hazard awareness & observation skills of both riders & drivers into the course material. Which other course participants might not be fortunate enough to receive, because most providers of the courses are not motorcycle instructors.. only car.

People on here need to understand.. Neither the AA Defensive Driving, or the NZTA Street Talk course are designed as "motorcycle" courses. They are general courses designed to raise people's awareness in: what makes a safer driver, risk & reality, human risk factors, managing change in one's own behaviour, hazard awareness & observation skills & techniques, & preparation for the full licence test.

It is unfortunate that some people regard these courses as a waste of time.. however as the qualities of a safe driver are: being cool/calm; aware/alert; obeying road rules; confident, but not overly; respectful; not tired/drunk/drugs; experienced/trained; & stick to the speed limits.. people in the courses learn that 80-% of driving.. is one's attitude!!

there is an old saying that goes something like... those who squark the loudest.. have the most to learn....

AAA+++ well said...

**Bounce001** · 18th August 2010, 14:38

When I sat my 6 full last year they accepted my Defensive Driving Cert that I sat 20 years ago. The office had to ring up LTSA and check that they could accept it, but it was no problem.

It was a classroom based course with no practical at that stage and I can't even remember motorcycles being mentioned. It was all about cars. The only defensive car practical training I got was ripping up the paddock at home on the farm! Best training out in my opinion!

**Old Steve** · 18th August 2010, 21:19

I have in fact done two defensive driving courses as part of my company car driving requirements. One was a BMW course in Wellington and the other was a Ford course at Tokoroa aerodrome. While both were car courses, they contained valuable points, such as the correct line through a corner (late turn in, late apex, flat out - just the way we do it on a motorbike), attitude, awareness of other road users and hazards, braking and emergency avoidance. But never expecting to need the certificates, I filed them "someplace safe" where they are to this day.

Now, don't get me wrong, the ACC Roadsafe course is excellent. I'd do it again - in fact I will keep an eye out for the advanced course to be run here in Tauranga. But it's unlikely that these courses will be run in the immediate future. The course organiser told me that his liaison at ACC has told him there is no money in the budget for the ACC to subsidise further courses he'd like to run in october.

The Roadsafe course I did was conducted by a motorcycle instructor, Ian Templeton I think his name was, so was specific for motorcycles. Out of about 6 hours at the course we probably spent nearly 4 hours on our bikes, if we were waiting for one-on-one instruction on some activity then we had the chance to do circuits through the other exercises such as small radius turns and slalom.

As the instructor was a specific motorcycle instructor (think he said he had nearly 30 bikes of his own) this course was of more benefit to me as a new bikie than any car based defensive driving course such as the AA course.

Mind, as as been said above, any course which increases our awareness of other traffic and hazards we might meet, and allows us to avoid accidents by skill and planning, is worth its weight in gold.

Just wish I'd known that the ACC Roadsafe course wasn't eligible for a reduction in my 6R time before I rocked up at VTNZ with the certificate. And I would hope that it eventually does qualify towards the 6R reduction, because its a bloody good course.