No, but what's your point ?Originally Posted by bogan
Anarchic Wild Child
No, but what's your point ?
"So if you meet me, have some sympathy, have some courtesy, have some taste ..."
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my point is that some road safety campaigning is a load of bollocks, and doesn't educate that the road rules are absolute and must be heeded, guy crashing due to excessive speed for the visibility into a corner means doing the same speed on straights is dangerous?
And the rules will never be absolute, safe is always going to relate to the circumstances, so people driving with safety in mind are far better than those driving with rules in mind.
To instigate a massive culture change, the masses must first realise (be educated) that they are better off to do so. I don't think that has happened yet.
"A shark on whiskey is mighty risky, but a shark on beer is a beer engineer" - Tad Ghostal
Whisky Tango Foxtrot?
The people that get education themselves are not those in most need of it. Many people get a license and then forget about learning (or good driving for that matter). The ads do very little, too easy to tune out.
When I got back on 2 wheels after ~20 years of only driving cars I quickly booked myself into an RRRS course to help find out what I didn't know and what I was doing wrong. Better to find out on a course than in an accident.
I'd like to see much less focus on fining the misbehaving drivers and much more of making them take classes and learn better driving behaviour. 100 demerit points and you lose your license for 3 months - I think that is retarded, many people need their license to get to work and 3 months break from driving isn't going to magically make them better at it. 100 demerit point = 100 hours mandatory driver training - that's both punishment and education! The errant driver will have to pay for it too, so that is 100 hours of their time and however much of their money it has cost them.
The compulsory education should teach useful stuff like:
Being aware of others on the road and showing consideration.
Using indicators so others know what the fuck you are trying to do.
Merging properly and considerately allowing others to merge.
Driving on multi-lane motorways does not mean sitting in the right lane 100% of the time, EVEN if your speedo reads 100kph.
On-ramps are for speeding up to match the traffic on the motorway, not tootling along at 40kph.
At intersections: LOOK PROPERLY!
U-turns are not to be taken lightly or done carelessly! Much care and careful looking (with eyes actually open) is required. If you can't manage that then don't do them.
When driving - pay attention to the driving (not texting, playing with the radio, conversing with passengers, etc)
etc.
----------------------------------------------------
"If the cops didn't see it, I didn't do it!"
- George Carlin (RIP)
Hardcore Biker
Tired Old Cynic here.
Tired Old Cynic who first held a NZ motorcycling instructor's ticket in 1978, created the first civilian advanced riding school for road riders (and, as far as I am aware, the only one ever to have Ministerial approval), and who still instructs at advanced rider training days.
Riding skills are one thing, and can be taught and caught, and that's where a lot of us start and finish in talking about education.
The trouble is this: my audience, one would think, is the converted. I instruct at a place where people pay their own money and turn up voluntarily. But as soon as I mention attitude, and try to introduce the thought that now they have some physical skills which are second nature, they can start on the important attitudinal things for road riding: thinking, observation, the whole ball of wax the Poms call "roadcraft", I see the eyes glaze over.
Most riders just want to go faster than their mates. Not all the time, just when they want to show off. But most don't want to engage in proper organised racing, either. Worst of both worlds.
So, in summary, the problem is attitudinal; and no amount of attempts at education short of cognitive behaviour therapy (one-on-one with therapists) is going to achieve anything.
Hardcore Biker
Nonexistent, really.
Because there's no practical skills test or classes that we're 'forced' to take in order to gain our licenses. You could say that there's the defensive driving course but that's optional.
In some European countries, it's really hard to get your license and is a cause for celebration if you do. Here, you just study the test for a couple of hours and rock on up to the centre & pass the test.
1. Theory tests - needs to be much more comprehensive. The current theory test is too easy. All you have to do is remember the answers to the questions and you're fine.
2. Practical tests - The restricted/full are specified as 30m/60m but I often hear that the instructors only do the test for 10-20 minutes before telling the person they've passed. There's no 'hazardous driving' test when the car is purposefully put out of control (skidding, sliding, etc) in a controlled environment and you have to get the car back in control.
Forum whore
Congratulations - that almost sounds like something I would say.
Aio ki te Aorangi
Who gives a shit when my no claims bonus is protected for life, i can crash as much as I like and still pay the same premiums...
Anyhoo, my take...
I'd like to see some form of educational "film" that explains the top 10 crashes for motor vehicles. A "film" that maybe runs for 2 - 3 minutes, unless you can run a series of progs a year... The idea is to EXPLAIN what's causing the crashing, whilst NOT alienating the viewer by LECTURING them (well not directly anyway)... yes some of us understand that it's us that's the problem, but as mentioned elsewhere, if we have a clean(ish) driving record then it's other people that are crashing...
Base it on the stats, real crashes, real investigation reports, plonk in a little re-enactment if necessary, but explain it
Crash 1, running wide on corners... have the potential CAUSES explained by a KNOWN and respected face... crap on roads, excessive speed, dodgy road surface, rain (paint and snakes) and my favourite incorrect motorcycle setup, tyres up to temp, suspension setup correctly etc...
Crash 2, intersections... visibility, road conditions, SMIDSY, poor judgement, guesstimation of other traffic speeds, other traffic intent, etc...
that's just my 0.2c
I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!
Bardcore Hiker
The tv ads are all shit. I honestly don't know of anyone who whilst out driving/riding are thinking about that ad they saw on tv. People know they will hurt themselves if they fall off/crash, it's not rocket science. Pointless in my opinion.
The biggest improvement in education for road users must come at high school level. I cannot believe that in this day & age that drivers licences are not a part of the school curriculum, either compulsary or as an option when kids reach the age of 15/16.
Driving is something a huge percentage of the population do everyday of their life, and is more important in a lot of working situations than some of the other rubbish they teach in schools these days.
Shaken, not stirred in the shakey city!
Wearing Hi-Viz Black.
Brocky: "Only a fuel breaks the two second ruewl", &
"Brake on the straight, before it's too late".
Bring back Brock!... err. Hang on a sec.
TOP QUOTE: “The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people’s money.”
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I'm for this, but it seems too much like honesty for it to ever get done.Who gives a shit when my no claims bonus is protected for life
Anyhoo, my take...
I'd like to see some form of educational "film" that explains the top 10 crashes for motor vehicles. A "film" that maybe runs for 2 - 3 minutes, unless you can run a series of progs a year... The idea is to EXPLAIN what's causing the crashing, whilst NOT alienating the viewer by LECTURING them (well not directly anyway)... yes some of us understand that it's us that's the problem, but as mentioned elsewhere, if we have a clean(ish) driving record then it's other people that are crashing...
Base it on the stats, real crashes, real investigation reports, plonk in a little re-enactment if necessary, but explain it
Crash 1, running wide on corners... have the potential CAUSES explained by a KNOWN and respected face... crap on roads, excessive speed, dodgy road surface, rain (paint and snakes) and my favourite incorrect motorcycle setup, tyres up to temp, suspension setup correctly etc...
Crash 2, intersections... visibility, road conditions, SMIDSY, poor judgement, guesstimation of other traffic speeds, other traffic intent, etc...
that's just my 0.2c
"A shark on whiskey is mighty risky, but a shark on beer is a beer engineer" - Tad Ghostal
Aio ki te Aorangi
lol, aye.... just thought it'd be better than trying to ram "facts" down peoples throats (we all love being taught to suck eggs)... but "drivers" will be in that situation, making those instantaneous "driving" decisions based on the situation before them... the more they know, or take into consideration, the better the outcome I would have thought... Leading to water etc... It may only work for me
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I would say it'd work for most, there-in lies the problem for TPTBlol, aye.... just thought it'd be better than trying to ram "facts" down peoples throats (we all love being taught to suck eggs)... but "drivers" will be in that situation, making those instantaneous "driving" decisions based on the situation before them... the more they know, or take into consideration, the better the outcome I would have thought... Leading to water etc... It may only work for me
"A shark on whiskey is mighty risky, but a shark on beer is a beer engineer" - Tad Ghostal
Anarchic Wild Child
Oh shit ... do we agree ?Congratulations - that almost sounds like something I would say.
Maybe we don't ... I certainly won't take my own suggestion ... I don't want to be part of such a culture change ... My licence comes back next week, and I certainly expect to be breaking the speed limit the following weekend ...
I like being socially unacceptable ... it's one of the reasons I still smoke ..
"So if you meet me, have some sympathy, have some courtesy, have some taste ..."
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Is that like wanting to make sure everyone knows that you don't care what they think?
"A shark on whiskey is mighty risky, but a shark on beer is a beer engineer" - Tad Ghostal
Forum whore
If you want an advert that will educate kiwi drivers and riders, they would need to go a little something like this.
[scene 1 - A car driving at speed along a twisty NZ road]
[voiceover]
This is Michael Schumacher, and even though he is a multiple F1 World Champ, you probably think you are just as good at driving as he is.
[scene 2 - Camera cuts to Michael driving, at obvious pace, the tyres sliding on cowshit, cars hesitating at side intersections etc, when he loses it and rolls the car]
[voiceover]
However even he couldn't handle the crap conditions of our roads and the sheer idiocy of other road users - so what makes you think you can?
Substitute Rossi on a bike for Schuey in the car for a bike ad.
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