Education - What will it take?

[MarkH]

Bring back Brock!

Yeah - Zombie Brock will set those fools straight!

[Banditbandit]

Is that like wanting to make sure everyone knows that you don't care what they think?

Yeah .. something like that ... DILLIGAF

[Scuba_Steve]

Education is supplying me with a Super truck equipped with a cattle guard from a train.
If they don't learn how to drive quick they won't be on the road long!

[porky]

Tired Old Cynic here.

Tired Old Cynic who first held a NZ motorcycling instructor's ticket in 1978, created the first civilian advanced riding school for road riders (and, as far as I am aware, the only one ever to have Ministerial approval), and who still instructs at advanced rider training days.

Riding skills are one thing, and can be taught and caught, and that's where a lot of us start and finish in talking about education.

The trouble is this: my audience, one would think, is the converted. I instruct at a place where people pay their own money and turn up voluntarily. But as soon as I mention attitude, and try to introduce the thought that now they have some physical skills which are second nature, they can start on the important attitudinal things for road riding: thinking, observation, the whole ball of wax the Poms call "roadcraft", I see the eyes glaze over.

Most riders just want to go faster than their mates. Not all the time, just when they want to show off. But most don't want to engage in proper organised racing, either. Worst of both worlds.

So, in summary, the problem is attitudinal; and no amount of attempts at education short of cognitive behaviour therapy (one-on-one with therapists) is going to achieve anything.

yup, thats pretty much it. Change peoples attitudes and you are on the way. Problem is ......ive done the course, im ten foot tall and bullet proof and that bit of road belongs to me so go fuck yourself!!

Amazing how an impact crash, not a slide down the road, complete with trip in a meat wagon helps one to reavaluate things. First is "its the other c@@@'s fault and im blame less", over time this changes to "if only i had ......." , but hey WTF would i know.

[Banditbandit]

ive done the course, im ten foot tall and bullet proof and that bit of road belongs to me so go fuck yourself!!

Naa .. f'k off .. it's mine ...

[avgas]

Education is supplying me with a Super truck equipped with a cattle guard from a train.
If they don't learn how to drive quick they won't be on the road long!

I second this one.

[MarkH]

Personally I think that fines & license suspensions are the cheap and easy way out. Setting up road safety courses and making them mandatory for people caught displaying a dismal lack of knowledge of courteous driving behaviour - well that would take an effort and cost some money to setup (ongoing costs can be charged to the wayward drivers).

My idea would be different to advanced driving courses - focusing instead on safe & courteous driving. Being considerate to fellow motorists should not be optional - it should be compulsory and anyone found to be driving with a bad attitude showing should be caught & sentenced to my idea of driver training classes. Also new drivers should be trained in considerate & careful driving before getting a license.

Inconsiderate driving:
Today on the motorway I saw a car in the middle lane, nothing in front of him/her for over 300 metres, changed into the right lane where there was nothing in front of that car for over 200 metres. I wondered what the point of that lane change was - my guess is that the driver just liked to be in the right lane and didn't care if they held up traffic. I changed to the middle lane and passed that twat, but really why do I keep having to change lanes and pass cars on the left? Doesn't the law say that you should stay to the left unless overtaking? Cops should pull over idiots like that and send them to driving school to learn why they shouldn't do that. Maybe losing some time & money might make them think a bit about their driving. I wouldn't have thought that keeping to the left to allow faster vehicles to pass you would be too complicated for drivers to understand - but I so often see drivers that just don't seem to understand.

The cops only seem to focus on pulling over vehicles going a bit fast and they only give out a fine - the idiots that drive inconsiderately carry on as they always have, oblivious to the fact that other people are trying to use the road at the same time as they are.

[mashman]

Do Ads for 3D cinema ... could be an interesting way to grab someones attention for a quick chat?

[Blinkwing]

If we raise the bar on passing the driving test to make the roads 'safer' we must accept that a significant number of us will never be good enough to get a licence.

So far Govts. have been unwilling to deal with this for fear of upsetting the voters.

Public transport isn't good enough to make the switch either.

[Banditbandit]

Personally I think that fines & license suspensions are the cheap and easy way out. Setting up road safety courses and making them mandatory for people caught displaying a dismal lack of knowledge of courteous driving behaviour - well that would take an effort and cost some money to setup (ongoing costs can be charged to the wayward drivers).

My idea would be different to advanced driving courses - focusing instead on safe & courteous driving. Being considerate to fellow motorists should not be optional - it should be compulsory and anyone found to be driving with a bad attitude showing should be caught & sentenced to my idea of driver training classes. Also new drivers should be trained in considerate & careful driving before getting a license.

Inconsiderate driving:
Today on the motorway I saw a car in the middle lane, nothing in front of him/her for over 300 metres, changed into the right lane where there was nothing in front of that car for over 200 metres. I wondered what the point of that lane change was - my guess is that the driver just liked to be in the right lane and didn't care if they held up traffic. I changed to the middle lane and passed that twat, but really why do I keep having to change lanes and pass cars on the left? Doesn't the law say that you should stay to the left unless overtaking? Cops should pull over idiots like that and send them to driving school to learn why they shouldn't do that. Maybe losing some time & money might make them think a bit about their driving. I wouldn't have thought that keeping to the left to allow faster vehicles to pass you would be too complicated for drivers to understand - but I so often see drivers that just don't seem to understand.

The cops only seem to focus on pulling over vehicles going a bit fast and they only give out a fine - the idiots that drive inconsiderately carry on as they always have, oblivious to the fact that other people are trying to use the road at the same time as they are.

Lemme ask you .. was this car travelling at 100 kph ? If so, why did you feel the need to pass ? Just 'cause you was in the fast lane ? And therefore had to be travelling fast ? Or because bikes just have to be faster than cars ?

Who was breaking the rules here ? Who was being discourteous ?

[munster]

I hate the current focus of driver adds, i.e. one on the radio this morning.

You're doing 50, a car pulls out, you brake, you stop
You're doing 55, a car pulls out, you brake, your tyres screech, you hit it
You're doing 60, a car pulls out, you brake, your tyres screech, you hit it, the driver dies, your girlfriend leaves you, you loose your job

All I can think when I hear that is, why aren't they teaching people not to pull out. Why are they punishing the victim? It's like they're condoning bad driver behaviour, "I can pull out anytime, because if you're doing the limit, you'll be able to stop in time"

[MarkH]

Lemme ask you .. was this car travelling at 100 kph ?

No, the car was travelling at ~90kph.

If so, why did you feel the need to pass ? Just 'cause you was in the fast lane ? And therefore had to be travelling fast ? Or because bikes just have to be faster than cars ?

Who was breaking the rules here ? Who was being discourteous ?

Even if the car was going 100kph the driver would still have been discourteous. I think that there are a lot of fuckwits that think if their speedo reads 100 then they can sit in the right hand lane and fuck everyone behind them - this is very poor driving on their part. For one thing it is entirely possible to have your speedo reading 100 and be only travelling at 90kph. For another - even travelling at 100kph you are not entitled to drive in the right lane - if another driver wants to drive along at 105 then that is their business, you don't have a right to move into the fast lane and block them because you think they are being naughty.

Also:
If I ride at 110kph that is not discourteous driving - maybe you just don't understand what courtesy is? Kinda the point I'm making - education is sorely needed.