Where has common sense gone?

[Woodman]

Really? Best you tell that to all the people that commute to work every day on 2 wheels. I dont commute, but have been known to ride out in torrential rain in the dead of winter, just cos I can.

I know there are folk who will do that, but I do not think it will become universally popular here like in warmer climates. Yes in a lot of these countries a scooter is all a lot of people can afford and they use them a lot, not just twice a day to and from work.
How many of the motorcycling commuters here opt for their car on wet days? can you imagine if there were a lot of riders caging it on rainy days, wouldn't that rainy day commuting fun.

[GOONR]

.....The theory being, that if more people rode motorcycles/scooters the congestion problem would be solved. This may well work in some countries with warm climates, but new Zealand just has not got the weather for everyday motorcycling.....

Bugger, I wish someone had told me that earlier. I use my bike no matter what the weather, I've been doing it all wrong.

[schrodingers cat]

Meh.

I'd rather keep "commuters" off bikes anyway. It's these people who are uninterested in any form of biking bar getting to and from work that provides the Govt with some of it's best ammunition against us. I don't want to be further associated with those idiots.

Keep bikes for those who ride them from enjoyment.

Yeah! And keep the drugs out of hospitals while you're at it

[NONONO]

I know there are folk who will do that, but I do not think it will become universally popular here like in warmer climates. Yes in a lot of these countries a scooter is all a lot of people can afford and they use them a lot, not just twice a day to and from work.
How many of the motorcycling commuters here opt for their car on wet days? can you imagine if there were a lot of riders caging it on rainy days, wouldn't that rainy day commuting fun.

Universally popular with me, every day, wet or dry...
But may agree with your idea bout sending all scooter riders to Vietnam,
Luvly pair of shoulders, show em off, show em off.

[rastuscat]

Not sure how scientific my thoughts are but...........

A 175cc motor putting along at 50 km/h might make more smoke than a 5000cc motor idling along beside it.

But it's not only the visible smoke that counts. The CO churned out by the extra 4825cc can't be seen, but it still exists.

By my thoughts, bikes are more environmentally friendly mainly because they frequently burn less fuel. Seems like a simple thing. Bikes get blamed coz they are sometimes smokey (mainly 2-strokes). They are just an easy target to pick on.

Am I wrong?

[Jonno.]

Not sure how scientific my thoughts are but...........

A 175cc motor putting along at 50 km/h might make more smoke than a 5000cc motor idling along beside it.

But it's not only the visible smoke that counts. The CO churned out by the extra 4825cc can't be seen, but it still exists.

By my thoughts, bikes are more environmentally friendly mainly because they frequently burn less fuel. Seems like a simple thing. Bikes get blamed coz they are sometimes smokey (mainly 2-strokes). They are just an easy target to pick on.

Am I wrong?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalytic_converter

Hi Jacked ! Aw well, sorry Mom theer are Morons on here who'd rather argue the preposturious theory that a car is even remotely as efficient as a bike/scooter.
KB used to be a great place to come for a laugh, but these days all I see is a bunch of whining snivelling puppets with someone elses hand up their arse telling them what to say.
Since when do we hairy arsed bikers give someone like this bloody SIMPY1 the time of day.
Piss Off simpy1 and take yer ratty arsed 2fiddy with you.
BOLLOCKS to your theory and crap about "the research"
Petrol in, peetrol burnt vehicle goes so many K's.
As for Globsal Warming, don't get me started, like I said.Piss Off!

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/jun.../hy-throttle11

[caseye]

What read all of that? Piss OFF!
You are going to go far here handing out reds like party pills.
BOLLOCKS Inspector, thats what I say, How an internal combustion engine that is 10% the size of another can do more damage than the bigger one.
I know, read the blurb/propoganda, that doesn't tell this simple soul how it comes about that a bike engine makes more pollution than a cars engine.

[davereid]

I hate to be a downer here but the only situation where motorcycles reduce pollution is if they are replacing one person driving an older, large-displacement car. Motorcycle engines in general are not terribly clean, and most bikes lack catalytic converters! 2 people on bikes is usually worse, pollution-wise, to two people in one car.

But in terms of congestion, yes they're a good thing!

Lots of bikers choose motorcycles simply for performance. So comparing an eco-car to a super-bike is not really a fair comparison.

Comparing an eco-bike to an eco-car might be a better comparison.

There are dozens of 200cc and smaller bikes that get fuel economy of around 2 litres per 100km.

Thats twice as good as the best hybrids or eco cars.

They also used a tiny fraction of the energy used to manufacture a hybrid vehicle, and will be much easier to dispose of at the end of life.

5 of them can park in a space large enough for one car.

Even larger bikes match eco-cars for fuel mileage.

My Harley Sportster gets an easy 55 or 60 mpg. My Kawasaki ER6 does even better, and it has a catalystic converter.

My TGB moped has done 44000 km, and uses a frugal amount of fuel - so little I have never bothered to work it out. Its extra emissions might be of concern in Bombay, but on the West Coast of New Zealand they are irrelevant.

There are certainly bikes out there that are not frugal, but a carefully selected commuter bike, even if only used on dry days is a great way to have a bit of fun, and be environmentally friendly.

[Jonno.]

What read all of that? Piss OFF!
You are going to go far here handing out reds like party pills.
BOLLOCKS Inspector, thats what I say, How an internal combustion engine that is 10% the size of another can do more damage than the bigger one.
I know, read the blurb/propoganda, that doesn't tell this simple soul how it comes about that a bike engine makes more pollution than a cars engine.

No. I gave you a red because of your pretentious "I'm right because I say so" bs.

http://www.worldcarfree.net/resource...es/motorcy.htm
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedi...,1076364.story
http://thekneeslider.com/archives/20...air-pollution/
http://www.healthnewsdigest.com/news...Generate.shtml

Fuel efficiency doesn't mean emission friendly. Most motorcycles are carb'd and don't have a catalyst converter.

[simpy1]

Well I'm glad one other person here is willing to read something longer than a sentence!

Also, regarding a comparison of bikes and cars, it is never an easy comparison. Yes a hybrid uses more fuel than a bike, but can transport 5 people rather than 2. Also it's not likely to be raced over the Rimutakas for fun. But I hate this argument - bikes are for fun, not for practical load-carrying. Riding a bike is not going to be a major influence in the destruction of our environment, nor is it going to make any significant positive difference. Just go have fun.

[MarkH]

The article I have used to base this thread on is talking about scooters. You can not for one moment expect anyone to accept they are not more fuel efficient than a car?

Even my big (400cc) and heavy (199kg dry) scooter goes over twice as far on a litre of 91 octane petrol than my previous vehicle (EFI 1500cc small light 5 speed manual Toyota car) did. And when you add the fact that the scooter is moving and the cars often aren't - there is a huge difference.

but new Zealand just has not got the weather for everyday motorcycling.

Auckland does - plenty warm enough, even in Winter and I probably only need my wet weather gear less than 1 day in 10.

Answer is - we don't buy economical bikes - we buy fast ones. If we all bought modern 250 to 400 cc commuters we could claim moral high ground - but we don't.

I do agree that ACC charges are stupid - used to be some bikers kept a scooter for going to work whereas now that does not seem feasable.

It's hard to blame bikers when ACC actively discourage owning something economical for day to day commuting as well as the fun weekend ride. 2 bikes is bloody expensive on the rego - even a 125cc scooter is over $400 to register, add a bike >600cc and you are blowing a thousand bucks a year on rego.

2 people on bikes is usually worse, pollution-wise, to two people in one car.

I thought this was about Auckland commuting! 2 people - in the same car as each other? That's crazy talk!

I'd guess that >90% of cars commuting in Auckland are only carrying a single person. A huge queue of cars barely moving in rush hour has to be horribly inefficient compared to bikes that are actually moving. Using less petrol is a good thing, even ignoring levels of pollution - the worlds oil reserves wont last forever so burning less is a good idea.

I have been riding for the last 2 years - I've saved a shit load of time and use less than half as much petrol. The last time I paid for parking was over 2 years ago. My scooter can get better than 25km on a litre of gas while commuting around Auckland - that is better than a Prius. I only have 400cc and it is fuel injected - it's way more efficient than the average car on the road, I can get from Onehunga to the CBD and back to Onehunga on 1 litre of petrol.

[marty]

I, being a qualified and professional environmental scientist, do believe that climate change is real.

Of course climate change is real. I'm pretty sure there used to be a fucking huge glacier here, but now it's gone. Something warmed up to melt it...



I hope you didn't get a $100k student loan to get that degree

[davereid]

Yes a hybrid uses more fuel than a bike, but can transport 5 people rather than 2. Also it's not likely to be raced over the Rimutakas for fun. But I hate this argument - bikes are for fun, not for practical load-carrying. Riding a bike is not going to be a major influence in the destruction of our environment, nor is it going to make any significant positive difference. Just go have fun.

I have never seen a hybrid with anyone except the driver in it. Mind you, I don't pay them any attention.

And you are right. A hybrid won't be taken for a thrash on a sunny day. But come to Kapiti. Any Saturday you will see dozens of V8s and Classic cars, taking a needless trip to a winery, a cafe or the beach.

Its not really accurate to suggest motorcycles aren't practical transport.

A quick trip to China, Vietnam or India will redefine your view.

I have seen a Vietnamese guy on a moped move two 44 gallon drums full of cabbage, faster than I could do it in my ute.

In those countries, two wheeled transport is real and practical transport.

The west has chosen the creature comforts of the car, simply because we can afford to do so.

As time goes on, so will the east.

As the east replaces the frugal motorcycle with the car, you will see real environmental damage.

Not Riding a bike is going to be a major influence in the destruction of our environment.

Just watch as in the next 20 years 3 Billion people swap the 80cc Honda they currently use, for the 2500cc V6 one they will then be able to afford.

I think you may just use your bike for fun.

But in my shed is a moped with 44,000 km on it and a BMW with 170,000 km on it.

They got that way by being used for daily commuting. Saving the rider and the planet heaps.

[2wheeldrifter]

Out of all my sense's "Common sense" I could live without.........

just had to say that sorry......

[jonbuoy]

Its not really accurate to suggest motorcycles aren't practical transport.

A quick trip to China, Vietnam or India will redefine your view.

Or Spain, Italy or pretty much any large city centre anywhere in the world.