It's amazing what an oil change can do

[MarkH]

Manufacturers cover their arse and will err well on the side of caution with regards to oil change frequency.

Bike shops make fark all selling bikes so it stands to reason the manufacturers will underestimate the oil change frequency in order that the bike shops can make some pesos.

Just think about it for a minute.

Why don't you read the first post in this thread and just think about that for a minute?

[MarkH]

http://www.ducatimonster.org/forums/...motor-oil.html

I've finished reading that thread - 83 pages, that took a while!
Thanks for the link though, I learnt quite a bit from reading that.

It was a bit of a laugh after reading everything that was written to see someone come in on page 60+ and say stupid shit like "my older bike doesn't need fully synthetic oil so I use semi-synthetic" - clearly someone that didn't read the thread before posting. At least I now know that semi-synthetic is not worth considering.

[pritch]

I've finished reading that thread - 83 pages, that took a while!
Thanks for the link though, I learnt quite a bit from reading that.
At least I now know that semi-synthetic is not worth considering.

I've had trouble convincing the Ducati dealer, or my local Honda dealer, to use full synthetic. They both use Motul so I still have the 5100 semi in my bike. Maybe that word "racing" on the label of both the Mobil and Motul packaging puts them off.

If you read all that though you'd probably like a neo or two? PM me your snail mail address and I post you a couple.

[MarkH]

If you read all that though you'd probably like a neo or two? PM me your snail mail address and I post you a couple.

LOL - I think I have more than enough neos for whatever - I've got a couple so strong I had to make a jig to separate them when they stuck together (causing some damage to each other). Not much you can't get from these guys: http://www.kjmagnetics.com/

[scracha]

Why don't you read the first post in this thread and just think about that for a minute?

He's gear changing at 18,000 RPM....hardly average road use.

[MarkH]

He's gear changing at 18,000 RPM....hardly average road use.

Is that really what you got from the first post?

Over the past few months, the gear changes on my bike have become rougher and rougher. Sometimes it would take 5 or 6 goes just to get it into neutral, and from neutral into first would sometimes take 3 or 4 attempts.

Getting into neutral as 18,000 RPM and neutral to first at 18,000 RPM - that doesn't seem likely. When I read the first post I got the impression that the gear changes had become rougher and rougher, then after an oil & filter change they suddenly became smooth again - this suggests that an oil change can do a lot of good for the smoothness of gear changes, regardless of RPM.

Is it possible that you completely missed the point and focused instead on one little thing mentioned in the post?

[SMOKEU]

Getting into neutral as 18,000 RPM and neutral to first at 18,000 RPM - that doesn't seem likely. When I read the first post I got the impression that the gear changes had become rougher and rougher, then after an oil & filter change they suddenly became smooth again - this suggests that an oil change can do a lot of good for the smoothness of gear changes, regardless of RPM.

Is it possible that you completely missed the point and focused instead on one little thing mentioned in the post?

I was meaning that it sometimes would go into neutral instead of 2nd gear when shifting at high revs. It doesn't do that anymore.

[scracha]

Or have I read the comments wrong??/ (again!

Yep

Is that really what you got from the first post?

Getting into neutral as 18,000 RPM and neutral to first at 18,000 RPM - that doesn't seem likely.

Wouldn't think it likely either but in the words of the man himself.......

no longer sometimes hook neutral instead of 2nd gear when attempting 18,000RPM gear shifts either

When I read the first post I got the impression that the gear changes had become rougher and rougher, then after an oil & filter change they suddenly became smooth again - this suggests that an oil change can do a lot of good for the smoothness of gear changes, regardless of RPM.

Is it possible that you completely missed the point and focused instead on one little thing mentioned in the post?

Possibly, but my original point wasn't actually focused on the first post (seemed obvious) but the numerous other posters stating that they piss money away changing their oil every 3000K's or when it turns black. Shit, I've read about guys changing their oil every 1000Km. I was trying to point out that the average bike when ridden properly can go a year between oil changes, even if doing highish kays. I was doing this to make people think twice about the need to change their oil and maybe saving them a few bucks in these hard times (and think of the happy polar bears).

A 4 cylinder 250 isn't the average bike and given his comments on other threads (perhaps mistakenly) I reckon SMOKEU thrashes the bejezus out of his bike. So yes, he should maybe change his oil (and check his valves )more frequently. And no, I didn't deny that replacing fucked oil with good oil would smooth out gear changes.

Smokeu....just out of interest, what sort of oil do you use on your little screamer?

[SMOKEU]

Yep

A 4 cylinder 250 isn't the average bike and given his comments on other threads (perhaps mistakenly) I reckon SMOKEU thrashes the bejezus out of his bike. So yes, he should maybe change his oil (and check his valves )more frequently. And no, I didn't deny that replacing fucked oil with good oil would smooth out gear changes.

Smokeu....just out of interest, what sort of oil do you use on your little screamer?

I thrash the absolute phuck out of it, but the bike loves it. At 15,000RPM it all comes alive like a hobo on crack.

I run it on Castrol Power 1 10W40 semi synthetic. As for getting the valve clearances checked, how much labour would be involved in that? I wouldn't even attempt to do something like that myself.

[MarkH]

Possibly, but my original point wasn't actually focused on the first post (seemed obvious) but the numerous other posters stating that they piss money away changing their oil every 3000K's or when it turns black. Shit, I've read about guys changing their oil every 1000Km. I was trying to point out that the average bike when ridden properly can go a year between oil changes, even if doing highish kays. I was doing this to make people think twice about the need to change their oil and maybe saving them a few bucks in these hard times (and think of the happy polar bears).

Well I would agree that changing the oil every 1,000 km would be going a bit over the top and also that every 3,000 km would be unnecessary if the manufacturer recommends every 6,000 km. Changing the oil when it turns black is also not needed - black oil is not necessarily in need of changing just as clean looking oil is not necessarily fine.

But I would disagree about leaving the oil for a year if doing high kms. Generally the oil should be changed once a year or when the amount of kms the manufacturer specifies are reached - whichever comes first. There is good reason why the oil should be changed every 6K, 8K or 10K as detailed in the service manual - that is why the manufacturers put that information in the service manual! Oil will require changing for many reasons - some additives help carry away contaminants from the engine which then get trapped by the filter, but those additives don't remain active forever and once depleted the oil no longer does that job as well as it should. Oil also absorbs moisture, some types more so than others - the water in the oil reduces the effectiveness as a lubricant and as a anti-corrosion agent, so replacing the oil helps a lot.

Changing the oil removes contaminants and provides a fresh batch of additives. With modern fully synthetic oils the oil itself may be fine for 50,000 kms, but the various contaminants that accumulate in the oil and the depletion of helpful additives mean that the oil should still be changed at the necessary intervals. Some of the contaminants in the oil will cause wear on moving components - that is the opposite of what you want from the oil.

Remember that a motorcycle with the oil lubricating the engine + gearbox + clutch will be much harder on its oil than a car with separate oil for the transmission and a dry clutch. The oil will get contaminated much faster and some oils will be damaged (shearing of plasticisers) by the gears - when compared to car oil.

Some of use run ~20,000 km per year and would like the bike to last for many years - to get >100,000 km out of the engine it is worth looking after it and changing the oil as often as the manufacturer recommends.

[grbaker]

I do about 10,000 to 14,000 commuting k's a year.... bike gets at least two (usally three) oil changes in that time and it always sounds better after an oil change. Oil filter every 2nd oil change.

Read a big'arse report on how much extra work motorbike engine oil does compared to average tin coffin. Basiclly the gear box also uses the same oil thus it is lubriccating more moving parts and wears out quicker.

Top end full synthetics should last longer the mineral (it why you pay the extra $30 for 4l).. Castrol 4T and Mobile One 4T is what I would recommend. I only use mineral oill if the bikes manual states not to use syntheic (like the wifes F650GS single).

[BMWST?]

'Some' people have been known to whip the spark-plugs out of the motor when changing oil & filter.

And after prefilling new filter, fitting it and adding oil they crank the motor over until oil light goes out, fast cranking speed, no load on motor. (Of course on some bikes it may be more than a two minute job to remove plugs)

Then screw in plugs, hit the button and instant oil pressure.

But that's only 'some' people...-

what..just have the kill switch off.....crank until pressure light goes off...

[onearmedbandit]

what..just have the kill switch off.....crank until pressure light goes off...

Not all bikes turn over with the kill switch off though.

[Pixie]

I said *some* bikes. The oil cooled Suzuki bandits were a classic example.

And is that 3.8L the oil capacity after an engine rebuild...???

Funny.....I've had 2 B12s and they all drain virtually all the oil out and require the stated 3.3L to refill

[scracha]

Some of use run ~20,000 km per year and would like the bike to last for many years - to get >100,000 km out of the engine it is worth looking after it and changing the oil as often as the manufacturer recommends.

I'm only going from my own personal experience as I ws doing well over that mileage and some of my old shitter bikes were closer to 200,000km.

http://mootavic.olilolo.com/docs/CBR250v.pdf
Take of rad, take off rocker cover (can be a bitch in itself) and get busy with the feeler guages. You'll be longer getting the fairing off than checking the valves! Will probably take you a whole morning the first time. Gets tricky if the shims need doing though.