The drink-drive war is won!

[scumdog]

So where does it stop?

At what point do you, personally, draw the line where you say it is no business of the state to detain you ?

I'm genuinely curious

When you don't live in said state anymore?

(And if you have found a state that does not poke its nose into your business - if such a state exists - be sure to let me know where...)

[AD345]

They are starting (not before time IMHO) to haul in those who have been imbibing in 'recreational drugs' now,, a step in the right direction. (amongst other things)

To address what issue?

What is the right direction?

how badly do you want to come into my house and just sniff around to see what you can find "just in case"?

remember - you aint just some traffic cop - you're a full fledged officer of the law. How much of my life do you think you should have access to?

You seem like a nice enough guy but geez wayne - do you ever think about where this "right direction" is going?

[Grubber]

So where does it stop?

At what point do you, personally, draw the line where you say it is no business of the state to detain you ?

I'm genuinely curious

They can detain me all they like if i've been fuckin it up.
Generally i don't, so they don't bother me at all..... except for that long arduous 60 seconds a while back.....now that was some imposition that was.

[scumdog]

To address what issue?

What is the right direction?

how badly do you want to come into my house and just sniff around to see what you can find "just in case"?

remember - you aint just some traffic cop - you're a full fledged officer of the law. How much of my life do you think you should have access to?

You seem like a nice enough guy but geez wayne - do you ever think about where this "right direction" is going?

Don't want those 'intrusions' and delays?

Easy, don't drive, anywhere. (In any country on this planet)

We ain't crashing ever into your house 'just in case' you may have been drink driving - unless you've not stopped as requested.

[AD345]

When you don't live in said state anymore?

(And if you have found a state that does not poke its nose into your business - if such a state exists - be sure to let me know where...)

So - whatever the ;aw says is ok = no chance that some wel meaning polli might have overstepped the mark in a rush to garner some votes?

No reflection on whether a set of circumstances that called for an action might have changed?

No possibility that an existing law could be used for purposes far beyond its original intent?

No way that any law abiding citizen could ever be affected by the application of the law to their detriment?

Scummy - is there any such thing as a bad law?

[DMNTD:Me]

So where does it stop?

At what point do you, personally, draw the line where you say it is no business of the state to detain you ?

I'm genuinely curious

Sure thing...as soon as it comes onto my property (home/etc) is when I get more than a bit grumpy.
If I'm smoking a joint/being a clown/etc on my own land and the Police come in to enforce the "law"...then I take offence (pun intended).

I have seen the results of some fuckstain's actions after drinking and driving. I have seen the damage to those left behind from their selfish actions.
Because it is such a short amount of time that it takes to test my bloody alcohol level, I do not have an issue with it.



Do I have double standards? Hell yes...but my opinion non the less.

[riffer]

When I was 18 I was struck and nearly killed by a drunken driver going the wrong way down the street without his lights on. It wrecked my beloved GP125 and sent me into a lamp-post, injuring my neck and chest, resulting in the cervical spondylosis (arthritis in the neck) I now suffer from.

Scumdog et al - you run as many checkpoints as you need. You have my full support.

[AD345]

Don't want those 'intrusions' and delays?

Easy, don't drive, anywhere. (In any country on this planet)

We ain't crashing ever into your house 'just in case' you may have been drink driving - unless you've not stopped as requested.

Crap - and not worthy of you.

Its not a request

theres plenty of places where random searches are specifically illegal

and none of this is the point

we are talking about here and now

[AD345]

yeah I get it about friends and relatives being victims of drink drivers - the same is true with me and my family and friends

Only difference is that I take the actuality of freedom further than the simple comfort of security - thats not a dig at anyone - its just the way I am


Pretty happy just to be having the conversation to be honest - it's a start

[scumdog]

Crap - and not worthy of you.

Its not a request

theres plenty of places where random searches are specifically illegal

and none of this is the point

we are talking about here and now

Here and now?

Don't come down here and have me stop you if your driving pissed here and now.

Don't like the laws?

Neither do I for some laws - but drink driving I HATE - I'd do my own mother for it if she was that stupid (Unlikely, she;'s a tee-totaller)

Sooo.... what IS your point?
You don't want Police to catch drink-drivers?
Or you don't think Police should be allowed to stop YOU, pissed or otherwise?

[AD345]

Here and now?

Don't come down here and have me stop you if your driving pissed here and now.

Don't like the laws?

Neither do I for some laws - but drink driving I HATE - I'd do my own mother for it if she was that stupid (Unlikely, she;'s a tee-totaller)

Sooo.... what IS your point?
You don't want Police to catch drink-drivers?
Or you don't think Police should be allowed to stop YOU, pissed or otherwise?

Fair enough question

My point is this - I think you've won.

I think the culture of NZ has changed from when we started "getting serious" about drink driving (even the terminology has changed). I think we have had the laws and enforement actions that were (probably) needed - but now it's done.

I think the aim has been achieved and I want the checkpoints to be done away with. I dont want the state to stop me when I'm not breaking any laws and this is a place to start because the job is done.


I'm realistic though - I'l settle just for the acknowledgement that the change has occurred and that no further laws need be enacted to stop the "scourge of drunken drivers".

Then later we can reduce the frequency of checkpoints and free up valuable resource for other areas that need addressing but most of all I want us all to realise that what could be done has been done and it has worked

Whay do I get so passionate about this you may wonder, after all its only 30 seconds, saves lives etc etc.......

because mate it really has worked BUT (BIG BUT) there are always people that love to acquire more power (and no I dont mean you personally) and this is the time where they step up and make even more draconian legislation to fix a problem that is DONE with.

Enough is enough

[pete376403]

this http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...-through-is-it would suggest the war hasn't been won.

Why don't the police do checkpoints right outside pubs?

[Genestho]

Hey AD345. Always enjoy your posts.

I may be wrong but I doubt there's much chance that checkpoints or RBT will end, only because there are so many studies and proven research around the world - that show these methods as effective in catching drunk drivers, countries that don't have this legislation in place discuss these models in earnest. I do realise the point you're making in reference to that particular media story.

I wouldn't say the war is won, in some ways there is still a way to go, but probably not in the way you think I think I may explain another time..

I agree with you that there seems to have been a major change, in the time I've been doing my thing - I've seen drink-driving - generally - no longer a joke, unless you count recidivism....and youth are still a problem as we've seen in the last week, but with time I believe we will continue to slowly encourage and educate better planning, understanding and gain generational change.

Policy may encourage change but ultimately change will be down to us - the public, to achieve this. There will always be a percentage of those that won't.

I'd like to hope things can only get better.

Could you please clarify what you mean by this is the time where they step up with more draconion legislation?

Are you fearing changes to alcohol legislation, traffic legislation, search and seizure legislation, something else, or all of the above?
I ask this because the next public consultation/select committee is coming very soon on drink drive issues.

Youth and recidivist changes are a given and I believe there is going to be another huge push for lowering limits.

[riffer]

...I think you've won.

I think the culture of NZ has changed from when we started "getting serious" about drink driving (even the terminology has changed). I think we have had the laws and enforement actions that were (probably) needed - but now it's done.

I think the aim has been achieved and I want the checkpoints to be done away with.

I Disagree.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/new...-blitz-nets-49
http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/loca...n-police-blitz
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post...al-news/179901

That's at least 400 drunks over a three month period within the last 18 months. Get real.

Personally I'd like the drink-drive rules changed to ZERO alcohol.

[davereid]

Personally I'd like the drink-drive rules changed to ZERO alcohol.

And lets reduce the open road speed limit to 20 while we are in the mood.