Announcing BRONZ Federation Inc

[Big Dave]

BRONZ still has 240 odd members - where's the division?

I'm one of them

How many members does MAG NZ have now?

[phill-k]

BRONZ still has 240 odd members - where's the division?

I'm one of them

If you read the rest of the posts after mine you will see there is a discussion about having two separate organisations attempting to represent the motorcycle community on the various issues such as ACC and levies ect, I've just checked the dictionary and one becoming two makes a division does it not except that there was already two groups in his ear now there will be three.

[NONONO]

If you read the rest of the posts after mine you will see there is a discussion about having two separate organisations attempting to represent the motorcycle community on the various issues such as ACC and levies ect, I've just checked the dictionary and one becoming two makes a division does it not except that there was already two groups in his ear now there will be three.

You are assuming that MAG-NZ's membership has come mostly from BRONZ members, this is not as far as we are aware, the case.
Some of us are members of both, however some are people who are signing up to become organized for the first time.
There is no one into two, no matter how much you would like there to be.

[phill-k]

You are assuming that MAG-NZ's membership has come mostly from BRONZ members, this is not as far as we are aware, the case.
Some of us are members of both, however some are people who are signing up to become organized for the first time.
There is no one into two, no matter how much you would like there to be.

Ok its sometimes hard to get ones thought processes into words. I was not inferring as to where the membership comes from but rather if there is to be a voice for motorcyclists then one loud voice rather than many drowned out voices are better. Not so much to get the message across but more from the perspective of the recipient. Bronz along with the original protest ride had a very large impact on both Government and the general population. If those representing motorcycling breakdown into ever greater numbers of organisations then the message gets diluted.
Personally but due to the politics of each organisation my wish is hopeless, but if under Motorcycle NZ there was a political arm (Bronz) a women's arm (can't remember their acronym) a geriatric arm, racing arm, protest arm (Mag) ect ect, but the voice of all these concerns was vested under management to one small group then our voice would be very loud indeed.

My own issue is I totally support Anne and their sentiments about running with the hounds, however I also support Les in that sometimes to gain you have to know when to join sides - the Maori Party as an example.

[Mom]

How many members does MAG NZ have now?

We made our website public 21 days ago.

We currently have 103 fully paid up members and 50 odd that are yet to pay their sub. Not a bad effort really as we are not "officially launched" yet and very little promotion has been done.

Ask me that question in a months time, I think you may be in for a shock

[AD345]

Hmmm

I'm turning into a curmudgeon it would appear because the only response I can generate to this now is "a plague on both your houses".

Internecine spats are a major turn off and I think more than a few people are underestimating the impact of (unofficially or otherwise) launching a new action group amongst established users of a largely unregulated, chaotic internet noticeboard. KB, like most other such forums, does allow people to display all sorts of behaviours that would otherwise go largely unnoticed and it's going to be a while before the political reality of public utterances really strikes home with some - David Garrett anyone?

MAG-NZ, you're wobbling and I'd suggest a rethink and some pretty clear guidelines on how and what should be said where and when.

I've admired BRONZ's policies for a long time and it is to my eternal shame that apathy has stopped me from greater input. However - latterly the utterances of a member of the Wellington Exectuive have been such that there is no possibility of my being able to reconcile my beliefs with that espoused by a BRONZ representative - so there's no going there either.


Naivete - thy name is motorcycling.

[Big Dave]

The loudest voice in motorcycling and public opinion currently is the Ulysses club.
Weight of numbers. About 4 thousand I think.

[Mom]

MAG-NZ, you're wobbling and I'd suggest a rethink and some pretty clear guidelines on how and what should be said where and when.

Interesting comments, and I agree, there have been some very silly posts made. This is the official response that I sent out first thing this morning..

"I am moved to say something. If you are posting under the MAG-NZ flag can you please, please, please be very aware that what you post reflects directly back on MAG-NZ as a whole. I dont want to have to defend us against attack for some flippant or frankly immature posting. We are all better than that, and there is nothing that will piss people off faster than arguing with patent trolls.

I have a log on for MAG-NZ Inc on KB and will start posting official stuff via that log on. I am happy to leave my avatar with the MAG-NZ logo on it, but if any of you want to post inflamatory posts then please remove MAG-NZ from your avatars.

The end."

I really hoped to keep that one under wraps, but seeing as it has been raised publically I will show my response publically.

MAG-NZ can not be held responsible or accountable for posts made by members on an internet forum. They are personal opinions. If anyone wants the real oil can I suggest they contact one of us via http://www.mag-nz.org/about-mag-nz/founding-members
or Pm me via KB.

[beama]

Mag - the new kid on the block they are learning quickly but shouldn't put their inexperience out there publicly, One post by a Mag/bronz wanna be (guess who you are) and the boys and girls get a public telling off, that is as bad if not worse than want already be said and done, over reaction. Prod a fire and it will always get bigger, Mom.

Bronz they are running scared, just like the cat when scared will always try make it self look bigger than want it really is in this case a federation.

Boys and girls you share the sandpit play nice together.

Mag you must have enough media savey by now to know the usefulness of public spokesman
if not get one a let him/her be your public face and why is it only the founding members can speak on your organization behalf.

[beama]

The loudest voice in motorcycling and public opinion currently is the Ulysses club.
Weight of numbers. About 4 thousand I think.

who are they again

[StoneY]

If you read the rest of the posts after mine you will see there is a discussion about having two separate organisations attempting to represent the motorcycle community on the various issues such as ACC and levies ect, I've just checked the dictionary and one becoming two makes a division does it not except that there was already two groups in his ear now there will be three.

One never became 2 at all, nor is it now 3

BRONZ had 5 regional branches, with no actual National Unified voice

Wellington Branch is tasked with focusing on Parliamentary and Political matters

We felt this could not be done by one regional branch without at least oversight and input from the other 4 regions, yet BRONZ National was long ago struck off the books.
This largely occurred because until last years ACC Levy issue's there had been no recent hardcore discrimination against Motorcyclists

We felt a National body to speak as a national voice for BRONZ was needed, and as the regions wished to remain autonomous and focus on their REGION's needs primarily, discussions started to happen and the flavour of choice was a Federation of the existing regional branches to be formed, effectively uniting all 5 branches, while they remain uniquely regional.

Many branches have their own charity events, relations with various local bodies and authorities, it was not going to work the way BRONZ National of old did so we took a fresh approach.

This took over 6 months to achieve, nothing was done in a hurry and all branches had a say in how we went forward together

In short, no BRONZ is NOT 2 organizations.....and never has been.
All branches have the same goals, the Federation is merely the tool for National announcements, combined projects, and to give us a little more political credibility on the wider stage

As in the formal statement attached at the beginning of this thread, we offer support and will be happy to work with all other Motorcycle groups of any kind for Bikers Rights and continue to uphold the core values that BRONZ was formed upon

[beama]

One never became 2 at all, nor is it now 3

BRONZ had 5 regional branches, with no actual National Unified voice

Wellington Branch is tasked with focusing on Parliamentary and Political matters

We felt this could not be done by one regional branch without at least oversight and input from the other 4 regions, yet BRONZ National was long ago struck off the books.
This largely occurred because until last years ACC Levy issue's there had been no recent hardcore discrimination against Motorcyclists

We felt a National body to speak as a national voice for BRONZ was needed, and as the regions wished to remain autonomous and focus on their REGION's needs primarily, discussions started to happen and the flavour of choice was a Federation of the existing regional branches to be formed, effectively uniting all 5 branches, while they remain uniquely regional.

Many branches have their own charity events, relations with various local bodies and authorities, it was not going to work the way BRONZ National of old did so we took a fresh approach.

This took over 6 months to achieve, nothing was done in a hurry and all branches had a say in how we went forward together

In short, no BRONZ is NOT 2 organizations.....and never has been.
All branches have the same goals, the Federation is merely the tool for National announcements, combined projects, and to give us a little more political credibility on the wider stage

As in the formal statement attached at the beginning of this thread, we offer support and will be happy to work with all other Motorcycle groups of any kind for Bikers Rights and continue to uphold the core values that BRONZ was formed upon

at last, MAG I believe you've been invited to the sand pit and your reply is............

Oh stoney Bronz spokesperson............... Hint MAG

[phill-k]

One never became 2 at all, nor is it now 3

BRONZ had 5 regional branches, with no actual National Unified voice

Wellington Branch is tasked with focusing on Parliamentary and Political matters

We felt this could not be done by one regional branch without at least oversight and input from the other 4 regions, yet BRONZ National was long ago struck off the books.
This largely occurred because until last years ACC Levy issue's there had been no recent hardcore discrimination against Motorcyclists

We felt a National body to speak as a national voice for BRONZ was needed, and as the regions wished to remain autonomous and focus on their REGION's needs primarily, discussions started to happen and the flavour of choice was a Federation of the existing regional branches to be formed, effectively uniting all 5 branches, while they remain uniquely regional.

Many branches have their own charity events, relations with various local bodies and authorities, it was not going to work the way BRONZ National of old did so we took a fresh approach.

This took over 6 months to achieve, nothing was done in a hurry and all branches had a say in how we went forward together

In short, no BRONZ is NOT 2 organizations.....and never has been.
All branches have the same goals, the Federation is merely the tool for National announcements, combined projects, and to give us a little more political credibility on the wider stage

As in the formal statement attached at the beginning of this thread, we offer support and will be happy to work with all other Motorcycle groups of any kind for Bikers Rights and continue to uphold the core values that BRONZ was formed upon

I was not referring to the number of individual branches of Bronz, I was in fact referring to all the different organisations that want our membership and wish to speak on behalf of Motorcyclists.
Personally I would prefer in our small country to have but one organisation who has the overall responsibility of representing those that wish to be represented.
Take for instance the NZ Yachting Federation, they are the official voice for yacht racing in NZ and represent all the extremes of yachting in NZ.

I don't doubt that all those who have formed lobby groups for our good are dedicated to their agenda, however having just one united voice would be louder when it comes to lobbying government.

[avgas]

I was not referring to the number of individual branches of Bronz, I was in fact referring to all the different organisations that want our membership and wish to speak on behalf of Motorcyclists.
Personally I would prefer in our small country to have but one organisation who has the overall responsibility of representing those that wish to be represented.

Don't worry BRONZ do a pretty good job at assuming this.
However it got questioned when a certain person made comments, and all the bikers in NZ said "Hang on, that's not what we want - where is your agenda?".........so rather than apologize and improve the process that BRONZ get in contact with the public, they figure if they open more branches, and all the branches say the same thing - this is a better representation of what the country thinks.
Isn't it?

[riffer]

Don't worry BRONZ do a pretty good job at assuming this.
However it got questioned when a certain person made comments, and all the bikers in NZ said "Hang on, that's not what we want - where is your agenda?".........so rather than apologize and improve the process that BRONZ get in contact with the public, they figure if they open more branches, and all the branches say the same thing - this is a better representation of what the country thinks.
Isn't it?

The trouble with representation is, that you can only represent the people that want to be represented. If TPTB want to talk to motorcycling community representation, and they decide that BRONZ are one of those people, we present the opinions of our members, and this is considered as part of the consultation process.

At no point have BRONZ indicated that they represent EVERY biker, just like any other biker representation group.

What's YOUR agenda?