MAG-NZ opposes the Motorcycle Safety Levy

[Mom]

I do have a question for MAG-NZ, is this attack by some of your key members a response to a disappointing initial membership drive?
Is this move to discredit any other organisations by misinformation and innuendo an attempt to rebrand MAG-NZ to fit the next highest demographic to increase your membership?

I am not sure where you are coming from with this post, but I really invite you to contact me off forum to discuss what attack you perceive, and by what key members of MAG-NZ. I did see a member saying what he had over heard said by someone associated to MNZ, and I have also read the explanation given in response. It is a non event apparently, and that would appear to be the end of the matter.

I do also question what organisations have been discredited by my post that is to inform KB members that MAG-NZ do not support the MSL.

As far as being dissappointed by the response to the launch of our website and the members that we have gained you could not be more wrong, we are actually really humbled that we have the support of so many without really even trying.

My name is Anne James. I am the elected President of MAG-NZ, you can contact me via PM here or email me at anne.james@mag-nz.org anytime you want to chew the fat, or complain about members of MAG-NZ attacking people/organisations. I welcome your feedback.

[Squiggles]

what does this mean?I am a member of Bronz Wellington.I joined in the aftermath of the bikeoi because at that moment they were the group that most closely represented my view.We need to be represented.So there is some hidden agenda for Bronz now?

Not that I am aware of...

Aims of BRONZ(Auckland):
To Promote road safety through road user education
Education Rather Than Legislation Saves Lives
To protect and promote the rights of the motorcyclist to decide his/her own future as a road user
Let Those Who Ride Decide
To promote and protect the general welfare of the motorcycling public
What Does Being A Member of BRONZ Mean?
BRONZ is a voluntary, non-profit organization. Your membership fee goes back to you, the member, via research into proposed legislation and road safety, regular newsletters and other social activities (eg Toy Runs, Blood Run, Easter Egg Run).
Your membership entitles you as a member and a motorcyclist to a say in how the organization is run. You are entitled to vote on issues that will affect the future of motorcycling and you may contribute anything that you feel is important. You are not obliged to attend any meetings or other functions regularly, although to get the full benefit of what BRONZ offers it is suggested that you avail yourself to as many as possible.
Branch meetings are open to everyone, members are welcome to bring a friend.
Being a member of BRONZ does not interfere with membership of any other organization or club. As a member of BRONZ you are expected to behave in a manner that will not be detrimental to the good name of BRONZ and the image of motorcycling.

Mag-NZ have similar aims, but I wont copy paste them as they're a page long


My personal opinion is that the MSL is a poisoned challice, someone is always going to have beef with it no matter what happens. Unfortunate as some find it, it exists, and will exist even without input from organisations such as BRONZ, Ulysses, WIMA, MNZ... Do we ignore it? Let money be potentially squandered and complain it shouldnt be and shouldnt even exist? Or use it to potentially benefit Motorcyclists? I would like to see the latter and I believe everyone would. The figures in Vic speak for themself imo (50% increase in registered MC but a 31% decrease in fatalities vs a 19% increase for the rest of Aus. (I'll see if i cant get a scan/digital copy of this doc im reading from Vicroads soon)), if we can emulate that here it'd be awesome.

Fwiw I'm a member of BRONZ, MNZ and President of the Auckland Uni SMC. I'd be a member of WIMA but i'm not a woman and I'd join Ulysses but it'll be 18 years before i'm of age. Mag-NZ, I intend to join on payday (Now-00: -$1,528.05 )

[riffer]

Sigh...

There's no private BRONZ agenda. Some members of BRONZ are also members of a group of motorcycle-representing organisations, PERSONALLY INVITED by the Government to provide a motorcycling-based perspective on a committee that will decide how this money is to be spent.

Even if BRONZ did want to push something through, they're still only one voice on the MSL. The group is made of eight people representing the following groups; Ulysses Club of NZ Inc, Bikers Rights Organisation of NZ (BRONZ), Women’s International Motorcycle Association (WIMA), Motorcycling New Zealand, Scoot NZ, NZ Classic Scooter Club, Motor Industry Association, Ministry of Transport and the NZ Transport Agency. Seven of the group members are motorbike or scooter riders. Without the MSL there would have been NO extra money being spent on motorcycle safety at all.

Members on the establishment group include:

1. Peter McIntosh, President Ulysses Club of NZ Inc
2. Brent Hutchison, President of Wellington branch of Bikers Rights Organisation of NZ (BRONZ)
3. Yvonne Forrest, Representative of Women’s International Motorcycle Association (WIMA)
4. Paul Searancke, Commissioner: Recreation/Leisure of Motorcycling New Zealand
5. Jess Corbett from Scoot NZ and the NZ Classic Scooter Club
6. Clive Hellyar, Advisor from the Motor Industry Association
7. Ministry of Transport representative
8. Jim Furneaux, from NZ Transport Agency

BRONZ continues to protest the rise in ACC levy with the Minister. The Minister (and Government) continues to maintain their position.

You want to know what your most effective form of organised protest would be for this Government? Reduce each and every single-vehicle motorcycle accident to zero.

I realise that's hard. A number of single-vehicle motorcycle accidents can be put down to road conditions. But let's stick it to the man. Reduce our accidents hugely so the stats (which they love) show that NO MOTORCYCLISTS are causing accidents. Their position becomes untenable as soon as we can show that its not our fault. But while they continue to look at the figures that tell them that a fair proportion of the accidents are caused by us, and that the most expensive ones are the big bikes they will continue to want to keep the ACC levies high.

RIGHT NOW the MSL is happening. That may change in the future, but we have this opportunity to do something about motorcycle safety, and education, and while you well-meaning (but IMO misguided) people continue to fight about it due to an ideological dislike, others are adding their input AND THEIR IDEAS WILL BE HEARD. Some of them will become projects.

And god forbid, maybe we will save some lives because of it. I hope one of them will be mine. And hopefully yours too.

[Mom]

Mag-NZ, I intend to join on payday (Now-00: -$1,528.05 )

What? Joining the dark side?

Cool, the more people that get actively involved with any group that is pro biker and cares about protecting and preserving the freedom that riding a motorcycle gives us the better!

[bogan]

I guess I must have read your previous post (below) wrong?

"and those who resent being forced to pay for it in the first place, can join mag eh cmon, you know ya want to yes, you, we need you!"

yup, I was largely taking the piss (hence the overuse of smileys) but it is always the case of the more the merrier

And once we've nutted out various campaigns and whatnot, then get stuck into the ACTION, I reckon we'll be well merry

[Berries]

You want to know what your most effective form of organised protest would be for this Government? Reduce each and every single-vehicle motorcycle accident to zero.

I realise that's hard. A number of single-vehicle motorcycle accidents can be put down to road conditions. But let's stick it to the man. Reduce our accidents hugely so the stats (which they love) show that NO MOTORCYCLISTS are causing accidents. Their position becomes untenable as soon as we can show that its not our fault.

Do you really think cause comes in to it ? if we reduce the bike crashes caused by riders to zero, there will still be a significant number of crashes caused by other people where ACC have to pay substantial sums due to the fact the rider was on a bike, not in a car. They could potentially drop the MSL (ho ho ho, Tui) but riders would still pay more because they are more at risk of serious/expensive injury than a driver.

Anyway, we won’t reduce crash numbers dramatically. Bikes have two wheels and can fall over. The reality is that motorbikes will always have a higher crash rate than cars because they are inherently unstable (I am ignoring the rider factor here to keep my post short). That’s my view, and the reason why I don’t necessarily disagree with the fact that a bike rider should pay more ACC than a car driver, notwithstanding the fact I’d rather it was all properly risk based taking into account experience, history etc etc.

I am very much anti the MSL. I can understand and accept the fact that riders pay more than car drivers for ACC cover. I can’t accept that we have to then pay an additional sum to pay for whatever this group think is the magic cure-all to reduce the crash rate when we aren’t the beneficiaries of that reduction, ACC are. I don’t care about new riders. I don’t care about born agains. I don't care about drunks. I don’t care about any other riders. You do your thing and I’ll do mine. I care about me being able to continue to ride my bike and I don’t see why I can’t do that without paying extra money for all the fuckwits out there who keep adding to the stats. They should pay.

I do understand that if you want change you are better working from within than from the outside. But when it comes to the MSL group, the deal is done. All the people on the group have accepted the $30 additional levy. For that reason I commend the MAG-NZ stance, and won't be requesting a copy of the 'Ride Safe' DVD when it comes out, or wearing my free hi-viz vest. Call me cynical, but what does anyone else think will come out of it ?

[Reckless]

Here here Berries great Post!!!!!!!!!!!!

While I still agree with your viewpoint on 'the core beliefes of ACC being compromised' unfortunately we are unable to repeal the levy increase, and we are unable to have it made any lower until our injury costs/frequency comes down.
Ergo, the only recourse left is to work WITH ACC and the current government (note the use of current) proactively for the current term.

I disagree here, nothing personal, but there is another recourse and it's to keep fighting and stick to the founding principles of the ACC. Tell them to jamb their levy and not help them spend it. Join us at MAG-NZ to fight for bikers not to be treated differently! Not to pay a discriminative levy no-one else (on or off the road) pays!

This is the thin end of the wedge in my view, enough his enough!

Also must be a bit difficult to be anti the levy quote 'the core beliefes of ACC being compromised' and then help spend it on MSL, I personally don't quite get that? I say fight it!

From what I have observed Stoney, Les, Bronz and a lot of others, put a lot of time and effort into bikers and biking and I congratulate you all on that! I personally don't want to see different biking organizations become in opposition to each other, we do need to be united. But on the MSL we may have to agree to disagree. We look forward to joining you, or you joining us on future issues and/or protest Action/rides that may benefit all bikers in the future.

Never forget we do have POWER! if we are ORGANISED!
Bikers are voters!! A lot of electorates are won by only a few votes! And there are more bikers in these areas than the difference in those votes. IMO we do have the power to change things, from the outside.

[Berries]

PS to my last post. I would feel the same if the levy for cars was increased to pay for all the other idiots who are crashing. I pay my taxes. Perhaps if better training was offered/forced for all new road users and the Police actually targeted real crash promoting offences rather than this mad desire to sit at the side of the road and nick people for doing 10km/h over the limit instead of having a true visible presence we would see the road toll come down.

[Hawk]

I can understand opposing the MSL, but it aint going away. No matter how many toys you throw out of the cot. The best thing we can do is have a voice in the way it is utilised.

As the MSL team is consisted of mainly bike organisations I feel much better about where the funding will go.

or use the funding to go on holidays sorry fact find trips

[StoneY]

All the people on the group have accepted the $30 additional levy. For that reason I commend the MAG-NZ stance, and won't be requesting a copy of the 'Ride Safe' DVD when it comes out, or wearing my free hi-viz vest. Call me cynical, but what does anyone else think will come out of it ?

Well, MSL will NOT be buying anyone a free vizi vest that I can assure you, not without going through the GETS website with correctly formatted RFI-RFP-TENDER process

In fact not one cent has yet been allocated to ANYTHING and wont till 2011 at the earliest

The 30$ is NOT above the increase.
The increase in total was 140$ of which the 30$ MSL was negotiated AFTER the levy increase was set, (thanks Ulysses club!) effectively giving us SOME say how its spent and some control over the use of OUR levy
I STILL OPPOSE the increase and say so often.
If 9,500 riders showing up at Parliament couldn't stop it neither will whinging on Kiwibiker

So many opinion's on here and no one paying any attention to the facts, as they are clearly stated over and over again.

The MSL is the ONLY good thing we got out of the levy increase if you all bother to read the legislation behind it (as I have)

Et Tu BRUTE?
No....woke up one day and realized battle no 1 was lost, so continue the war as best I can.
Buried my hatchet, got on with the task at hand
Funny enough, less than 3 weeks ago a certain organization that's now bitching about the MSL told me they were looking forward to having QUOTE: DIRECT ACCESS TO IT

Have a great day everyone

[Berries]

As you can see by the part you quoted, it was a question as to what others think may come out of the MSL. You are on the group, be interested to see what you think. I personally cannot see anything of use that will reduce the chances of me becoming an ACC statistic, therefore I think it is an unfair and biased tax. I would be surprised if you or anyone else will convince me otherwise.

If 9,500 riders showing up at Parliament couldn't stop it neither will whinging on Kiwibiker.

Anyone who thinks it would is an idiot. It is an online forum. What is it for if not for complaining ?

[Pixie]

Consider this:

When the measures that the MSL pay for (probably gory TV ads) fails.I'm sure it will,this is NZ after all.
Who will get the blame?
The motorcycling groups who the govt. will say had control of the spend.

Then the ACC levy will go up again.


Heh heh heh suckerrrrs

[Pixie]

it's both, inseparable, and different issues. Inseperable in that the crash rate caused the levy hike, different issue in that it shouldn't have, as set out in the woodhouse principals. You may not believe they are required or useful, but that is where I find the difference in issues arises from.

My Dear brainwashed one.
The levy hike was caused by the desire of the current govt. to mold ACC into a clone of an insurance industry entity - so it can be easily sold off to the big companies.

[Pixie]

No absolutely not.
Not Katman, not StonY, No one. will ever convince me that the shonky research, the political maneuvering, the lies and bullshit ever had one thing to do with improving biker safety..
ALL about the softening up of ACC in readiness for sale.
Heard Les and BRONZ shout long and hard, StonY and the unions screamed.....
.

Unions screamed?
I think four of them turned up didn't they?(members not unions)

[Pixie]

I will continue to wear my BRONZ badge as a sign I am an aggrieved motorcyclist - but will be wearing it upside down