MAG-NZ opposes the Motorcycle Safety Levy

**NONONO** · 17th September 2010, 10:00

Originally Posted by Eyegasm

Chicken or Egg, I really don't care. This is all it sounds like to me.

Yep..sounds like you REALLY don't care. So instead of trolling round the place, why not do something else?

**dipshit** · 17th September 2010, 10:15

Originally Posted by Katman

The moral of your story is that Fred died having achieved nothing.

And thank Christ for that.

Imagine the ACC motorcycle costs today if he had gotten his way.

In some ways asking a bunch of motorcyclists what they want... is like asking a five-year-old what they want for dinner.

Of course they are going to ask for ice cream sprinkled in hundreds and thousands instead of meat and veg.

**MSTRS:Me** · 17th September 2010, 10:30

Originally Posted by dipshit

And thank Christ for that.

Imagine the ACC motorcycle costs today if he had gotten his way.

Actually, I wonder whether there would be much difference in costs.
More head injuries would add cost, but that would be offset by the huge increase in deaths, which are cheaper to ACC.
Cost is a spurious argument. Helmets save lives and that's why they are a legal requirement. They are a good thing, in my opinion. I would be very uncomfortable not wearing mine. I'm not sure where I stand on any insistence that all wear them, but I tend to that side of the argument.

**Eyegasm** · 17th September 2010, 10:32

Originally Posted by NONONO

Yep..sounds like you REALLY don't care. So instead of trolling round the place, why not do something else?

Ok, I'll take that hit. I should have been clearer.

I do not care if their stance on the MSL came before or after they asked to be part of the MSL EG. It still sounds like they are complaining about being neglected from it.

As for trolling, If they can use KBs ACC mailing list to send me an email about their organisation, even when I did not sign up to the ACC mailing list (The Unsolicited Electronic Messages Act 2007 prohibits such action) then I feel that I should be able to voice my thoughts in an open forum.

**MSTRS:Me** · 17th September 2010, 10:50

Originally Posted by Eyegasm

Ok, I'll take that hit. I should have been clearer.

I do not care if their stance on the MSL came before or after they asked to be part of the MSL EG. It still sounds like they are complaining about being neglected from it.

As for trolling, If they can use KBs ACC mailing list to send me an email about their organisation, even when I did not sign up to the ACC mailing list (The Unsolicited Electronic Messages Act 2007 prohibits such action) then I feel that I should be able to voice my thoughts in an open forum.

We are all free to voice our opinions on here. MAG-NZ's official opinions are on their website. Some members will repeat them here, or give their own particular view which might be slightly different. Sometimes it can be hard to tell the official from the unofficial. The trick is to look for the emotion. The same goes for those that are part of BRONZ. We've also heard briefly from MNZ.
Basically, I think the various organisations all want to 'do their best' for fellow bikers, but don't always agree on what form that should take. If we did, there'd only be need for one rep body, right? MAG-NZ is against the MSL, but is fully supportive of it's aims. We just think that monies should come from general funding, not a special levy that only bikers pay. In the scheme of things, crash-wise, other motorists are responsible for approx half of our injuries/deaths, not to mention car-only crashes. Where's their special safety fund?

As for the KB mailing list - it's been said on other threads that no-one is obliged to be on 'the list'. So if you are, you either accept what is sent you, or you opt out. Bit like 'No Junk Mail' on your letterbox.

**Mom** · 17th September 2010, 11:01

Originally Posted by Eyegasm

If they can use KBs ACC mailing list to send me an email about their organisation, even when I did not sign up to the ACC mailing list (The Unsolicited Electronic Messages Act 2007 prohibits such action)

I suggest you take this issue up with Spankme.

I chose just one post, but if you read around it you will see the responses from KB. I suggest you unsubscribe to KB email if you dont want to receive it.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...post1129847138

**Eyegasm** · 17th September 2010, 13:32

I have no need to take it up with spankme, it was close to breaching the act, but did not do so.

I really need to clarify myself better in my posts.

And my apologies, I thought MAG had emailed KB to send out that email (via the ACC mailing list) to notify us. Thank you for the link.

**StoneY** · 17th September 2010, 13:37

Originally Posted by bogan

I use the

or

ones. Maybe you can answer the question stoney ignored, will bronz support (by encouraging it members to turn up) MAG anti-levy-increase rides or rallys?

Sorry mate I did not ignore the question just diid not realise you were directing it at me for an answer, and in all honesty it got lost in the clutter.

BRONZ Wellington has people in both camps, members of MAG and BRONZ as has Auckland branch.

Its a given our members can follow their own concience on such matters.

I for one support MAG-NZ morally, even where our personal viewpoints differ.

BRONZ see's MAG-NZ as a potential ally on many issue's.
Auckland have a formal stance on it, Wellington have been too busy getting the Federation up and running to take the time for a formal vote, but I truly believe our members will support any non disruptive legal actions carried out by MAG-NZ as will I myself.

However as for the issue at hand in this thread, (MSL) as I have stated before and will again:

I OPPOSED AND STILL OPOSE THE LEVY RAISES
For all the reasons we all did....

The ONLY good thing to come from it is the MSL fund that WE the BIKERS own....and we do OWN it by LAW!
No organisation has any ability to get their hands on these funds, its all done via a tender process with very stringent criteria to be met.
That too is set in LAW

Personall viewpoint:
(MY take on it , my PERSONAL opinion and NOT a formal BRONZ stance)

I would love to see MAG grow and gain strength, and become a strong organization. Its 2 months old?

I have many friends in MAG who worked tirelessly on BIKEOI and other projects as AAG, etc....but right now, in this thread, it looks like a bunch of people crying foul because thay cant have their own way and think that the long established organizations that have been round for years are hogging the piggy bank

I had been asked by a senior MAG rep 'how do we get MSL money Stoney'
YOU CANT
Thats all there is to it
BRONZ cant either, Ulysses cant, MNZ cant (as Paul S stated as well!)
There is NO CASH COW
Its 3.2 million a year....what sort of 'industry' is 3.2 million going to create? NONE!

Hope I get my point acrross this time coz KB brings out my dark side ...... the flame warrior in us all seems to get a steroid shot from these black pages with white text including my own........

Stay safe this stormy weekend folks coz I hate to say this (sigh) Katman...hes been right in so many ways from day one (arrrgh!)

Peace.

**Mom** · 17th September 2010, 13:44

Originally Posted by StoneY

Stay safe this stormy weekend folks coz I hate to say this (sigh) Katman...hes been right in so many ways from day one (arrrgh!)
Peace.

Good post, not so sure I agree with the Katman comment though

(a joke for those that need that pointed out)

StoneY, there are going to be differences in both our organisations stances on somethings. This MSL obviously is one of them. We are not whinging about it, we are loudly stating we are against it. You guys have decided to work inside the system, we have decided that we wont. The end. Simple difference of phillosphy.

It is already crappy up here, no riding for me this weekend.

**Luckylegs** · 17th September 2010, 14:13

Originally Posted by Katman

The moral of your story is that Fred died having achieved nothing.

One hopes your one (kat)man campaign (to have us all behave better on the road) ends a little better than poor fred's

**phill-k** · 17th September 2010, 15:28

Originally Posted by Pixie

Oh yeah the ATGATT thing.
I wonder how Fred lived to die in prison at the age of seventy four without ever wearing a helmet while riding.

No,both of my feet are fine.
Now take your's out of your mouth and check them for bullet holes.

I can tell you that had he arsed off his bike or been hit by a driver who didn't see him without the helmet his chances of survival would have very much been diminished.

**MSTRS:Me** · 17th September 2010, 15:33

Originally Posted by phill-k

I can tell you that had he arsed off his bike or been hit by a driver who didn't see him without the helmet his chances of survival would have very much been diminished.

Maybe. If he came off. Maybe. However, he believed it was his right to decide for him, and he had the courage of his conviction/s (sic) to put that into practice.

**StoneY** · 17th September 2010, 15:36

Originally Posted by Mom

Good post, not so sure I agree with the Katman comment though

(a joke for those that need that pointed out)

Thanks Anne
Looks like it killed BRONZ Wellingtons first 'hellovit' ride...sigh
Oh well.

Shiny side up everyone

**phill-k** · 17th September 2010, 15:40

Originally Posted by MSTRS

Maybe. If he came off. Maybe. However, he believed it was his right to decide for him, and he had the courage of his conviction/s (sic) to put that into practice.

I agree with you he did believe his cause was his right however the social consequences of not wearing a helmet is such that the cost to the wider community of preserving that right is to great.
If one was able to insure ones potential costs of choice then we would no longer need either mag or bronz, but the cost of that insurance would be prohibitively high. Makes the ACC levies quite palatable doesn't it.