MAG-NZ opposes the Motorcycle Safety Levy

**caseye** · 17th September 2010, 15:47

Originally Posted by StoneY

Sorry mate I did not ignore the question just diid not realise you were directing it at me for an answer, and in all honesty it got lost in the clutter.

BRONZ Wellington has people in both camps, members of MAG and BRONZ as has Auckland branch.

Its a given our members can follow their own concience on such matters.

I for one support MAG-NZ morally, even where our personal viewpoints differ.

BRONZ see's MAG-NZ as a potential ally on many issue's.
Auckland have a formal stance on it, Wellington have been too busy getting the Federation up and running to take the time for a formal vote, but I truly believe our members will support any non disruptive legal actions carried out by MAG-NZ as will I myself.

However as for the issue at hand in this thread, (MSL) as I have stated before and will again:

I OPPOSED AND STILL OPOSE THE LEVY RAISES
For all the reasons we all did....

The ONLY good thing to come from it is the MSL fund that WE the BIKERS own....and we do OWN it by LAW!
No organisation has any ability to get their hands on these funds, its all done via a tender process with very stringent criteria to be met.
That too is set in LAW

Personall viewpoint:
(MY take on it , my PERSONAL opinion and NOT a formal BRONZ stance)

I would love to see MAG grow and gain strength, and become a strong organization. Its 2 months old?

I have many friends in MAG who worked tirelessly on BIKEOI and other projects as AAG, etc....but right now, in this thread, it looks like a bunch of people crying foul because thay cant have their own way and think that the long established organizations that have been round for years are hogging the piggy bank

I had been asked by a senior MAG rep 'how do we get MSL money Stoney'
YOU CANT
Thats all there is to it
BRONZ cant either, Ulysses cant, MNZ cant (as Paul S stated as well!)
There is NO CASH COW
Its 3.2 million a year....what sort of 'industry' is 3.2 million going to create? NONE!

Hope I get my point acrross this time coz KB brings out my dark side ...... the flame warrior in us all seems to get a steroid shot from these black pages with white text including my own........

Stay safe this stormy weekend folks coz I hate to say this (sigh) Katman...hes been right in so many ways from day one (arrrgh!)

Peace.

Well said mate! Take care down there aye.

**riffer** · 17th September 2010, 16:55

'tis just a bit of wind Caseye. I'm on the way home. Hope everyone in BRONZ, MAG, Ulysses and everywhere else, as well as all the others that don't give a shit either way have a happy and safe weekend and still get some biking in.

If you see an RF900R doing a bit of bobbin' and weavin' through SH58 in the next half hour, leave me some space if you're in a cage okay?

**dipshit** · 19th September 2010, 06:48

Originally Posted by riffer

'tis just a bit of wind Caseye. I'm on the way home. Hope everyone in BRONZ, MAG, Ulysses and everywhere else, as well as all the others that don't give a shit either way have a happy and safe weekend and still get some biking in.

If you see an RF900R doing a bit of bobbin' and weavin' through SH58 in the next half hour, leave me some space if you're in a cage okay?

. .

**riffer** · 19th September 2010, 07:39

Originally Posted by dipshit

. .

Yes well I'll put you in with those who don't give a shit okay dipshit?

**Pixie** · 20th September 2010, 08:31

Originally Posted by MSTRS

Actually, I wonder whether there would be much difference in costs.
More head injuries would add cost, but that would be offset by the huge increase in deaths, which are cheaper to ACC.
Cost is a spurious argument. Helmets save lives and that's why they are a legal requirement. They are a good thing, in my opinion. I would be very uncomfortable not wearing mine. I'm not sure where I stand on any insistence that all wear them, but I tend to that side of the argument.

Plus the "perceived danger" effect.Bike Magazine dressed their journalists in pyjamas for a "ride naked" experiment.
Guess what? they rode veeery veeeery safely

**Pixie** · 20th September 2010, 08:37

Originally Posted by Luckylegs

One hopes your one (kat)man campaign (to have us all behave better on the road) ends a little better than poor fred's

Fat chance.Katman won't go beyond web whining to push his cause.
Nowhere near the commitment of men like Fred Hill,who by the way did not achieve nothing - MAG-UK would not be as big as they are without people like Fred.

**kevie** · 21st September 2010, 22:35

This thread has left me scratching my head ....... I would have hoped the biker groups would be talking and working together for OUR cause(s) but what i have read suggests differently..... or am I reading it all wrong?

I was at 3 biker protests (Marshal at 2) In Welly, and took it that BRONZ and the other groups were opposed to the changes in ACC and werent bowing down to the increases or Nationals schemes to sell ACC off . (remembers calls of "BULLSHIT" and "WE WILL BE BACK")

I can see the points that have been made in this thread (BRONZ/MSL) in their reasoning for the "change of heart" as some would call it, but I never saw anything prior to this thread that there had been this change in direction.
I dont think it may be a bad change, and can understand the reasoning, but as a biker, if you all want our ongoing support we all need to be in the loop both your members and non members, after all ..... if the non members are excluded then how are you ever going to draw them into financially supporting any of you? Altho ..... with the perception that ACC will be funding MSL, and MSL 'appears' to be BRONZ controlled.......... It leaves a question in the back of my mind "do you groups really need your paying members?" (Just my thoughts)

I think the various groups can work separately and together as long as they are communicating with each other and working for the betterment of biking in NZ so I will continue to support what is happening. I read the comments from all groups saying similar things but seemingly not accepting each other and this is concerning to me as a biker.

I think theres a real danger at the moment of BRONZ/MAG-NZ/MSL being seen as separate movements running similar but conflicting agendas and this could water down and maybe destroy the "force of numbers" that united we could have and could also confuse the majority of the biker community in who or what they believe and support. The danger of that is ....... they dont bother financially or time-wise supporting any of them.

**Reckless** · 22nd September 2010, 08:45

Originally Posted by kevie

This thread has left me scratching my head ....... I would have hoped the biker groups would be talking and working together for OUR cause(s) but what i have read suggests differently..... or am I reading it all wrong?

I was at 3 biker protests (Marshal at 2) In Welly, and took it that BRONZ and the other groups were opposed to the changes in ACC and werent bowing down to the increases or Nationals schemes to sell ACC off . (remembers calls of "BULLSHIT" and "WE WILL BE BACK")

I can see the points that have been made in this thread (BRONZ/MSL) in their reasoning for the "change of heart" as some would call it, but I never saw anything prior to this thread that there had been this change in direction.
I dont think it may be a bad change, and can understand the reasoning, but as a biker, if you all want our ongoing support we all need to be in the loop both your members and non members, after all ..... if the non members are excluded then how are you ever going to draw them into financially supporting any of you? Altho ..... with the perception that ACC will be funding MSL, and MSL 'appears' to be BRONZ controlled.......... It leaves a question in the back of my mind "do you groups really need your paying members?" (Just my thoughts)

I think the various groups can work separately and together as long as they are communicating with each other and working for the betterment of biking in NZ so I will continue to support what is happening. I read the comments from all groups saying similar things but seemingly not accepting each other and this is concerning to me as a biker.

I think there's a real danger at the moment of BRONZ/MAG-NZ/MSL being seen as separate movements running similar but conflicting agendas and this could water down and maybe destroy the "force of numbers" that united we could have and could also confuse the majority of the biker community in who or what they believe and support. The danger of that is ....... they dont bother financially or time-wise supporting any of them.

Good post Kevie! And I understand what you are saying!

Firstly the whole point of the thread was to let Members and non members Know MAG_NZ's position on the "safety levy" matter. We believe its wrong and would have protested it strongly from day one for the reasons stated above. As you rightly pointed out it is necessary for members to feel included and non members to make a judgment on an organisations position, which is the reason for the official release.

Secondly we are hoping that all the biker groups will work together (and take it from me there has been dialog flowing between the parties).
But MAG_NZ (Motorcycle Action group) is an "action group" and some of the less aggressive biker organizations out there may not agree with us all the time!
We will not be sitting back waiting for things to happen, we will be bringing attention to the issues that are of concern to bikers. But it is up to bikers to get of their butts and show strength as well!!

There has been some debate in this thread and it will take everyone a little adjustment time to except or agree to disagree on certain points, that is natural.
If MAG had been around as The levy was introduced it may have been a whole different ball of wax now. I agree with you and also saw calls of BULLSHIT! But what happened in the end?? Which is why MAG_NZ is here now and why we are making a stand!

MAG_NZ is not here to take over/replace other groups or to be used by other groups for action. MAG UK has been very successful at bringing bikers rights to the for and we have a strong belief that if bikers are organised we don't have to take it up the arse every time someone wants to put cheesecutters dangerously close along roads ( against international guidelines) or put a "safety levy" on, no one else pays!

Your first step is to join up and give us credibility of numbers, we are not asking you to leave any other organisation just support the MAG causes as an individual, if you see fit!
The second is to get your butts on your bike seats and turn up for whatever issue is being dealt with at the time!

Its about time we really stood up for ourselves as a group! We hope MAG_NZ can provide a vehicle to facilitate that!

**kevie** · 22nd September 2010, 14:44

Yeh it was a good thread, I seldom wade through all the pages of a thread lol but did with this one, some interesting comments and views on it. Its good to see you guys being informative and until I read it on this thread was totally unaware of the change in stance of the Bronz and affiliated groups in signing up for the ACC funded group. While I think it could be a help it also could weaken the stance they had taken, altho I doubt National/ACC is really interested in our stand (or anyone elses for that matter) hence I will definately be DISinterested in them next election.

I have been involved in all the protest action down here when I have been able to get to them and have joined Mag as well. Its hard with the general "She'll be right" kiwi attitude getting people motivated but I see some good steps forward have been gained by all the parties involved.

Look forward to seeing the future progress with the combined efforts of MAG, BRONZE and the other affiliated groups.
Keep up the good work all groups

**caseye** · 22nd September 2010, 16:21

We need more like you! Read the whole thread, haven't slagged off any outfit, just seen that there is room for all and a need to get Motorcyclists on their Backsides on their seats and get out THERE! to show practical, physical support.Congratulations on Joining MAG-NZ and still being a part of BRONZ and any other organisation you may be with .
I am a dual member and happy to stay that way, then I can HELP both parties when and as required.

**Waxxa** · 22nd September 2010, 16:51

The bikoi acheived a reduction of a ACC levy increase from $500 (approx.) to one of $175 (approx.). We did acheive something!

Out of this $175, my understanding is that $30 of this is going to various saftey initiatives in the form of this MSL. Am I correct?

There has been much discussion on this forum about ACC levy increases and though a lot of don't agree with it (myself included) there is also discussion that if there is to be an increase then some of that should be earmarked for safety initiatives. Is this not what the MSL is trying to acheive?

Now Restless made a vary valid comment, MAG-NZ were not at the 'table' when this initiative was implemented. MAG-NZ was formed too late and missed the boat. (On this one at least!) And though individuals have their thoughts on this matter, let us see how much is raised, how it is administered, audited and on what safety initatives it goes towards first, before the various Biker bodies and individuals start going toe-to-toe!

Because at the time of the levy increase there was going to be NO setting aside of funds at all for us bikers (training and safety). It was going to be an increase only in our eyes.

Time for calm I think on this MSL. Lets keep focused on not losing our ACC!

**MSTRS:Me** · 22nd September 2010, 17:15

MAG-NZ may well have been too late to be included on the MSL EG. However, we maintain that the MSL is inequitable, due to similar not being imposed on other classes of driver. Notwithstanding that the $30 was retrospectively applied out of the $174 extra levy. My personal belief is that this was a sop by Nick the Prick to try and avoid a repeat protest at the new levy level. Worked too, didn't it?

**fossil** · 22nd September 2010, 20:14

A VMAC member in Aussie has said that he never thought another government anywhere would be dumb enough to empower motorcyclists in legislation. Now we just need to stop trying to turn back time and make it work to our advantage.

**Berries** · 22nd September 2010, 23:39

Originally Posted by Waxxa

The bikoi acheived a reduction of a ACC levy increase from $500 (approx.) to one of $175 (approx.). We did acheive something!

It wasn't just the bikoi. There were a lot of submissions put in that also had an influence, probably more IMHO.

To be honest, I think the increase was always going to be what it turned out to be. They just put a higher figure out there to get the reaction, then 'lowered' it to ease the pain so everyone accepted it. And then threw the MSL in to the mix as well to make everybody grateful.