MAG-NZ opposes the Motorcycle Safety Levy

[riffer]

Bit of a bugger to see that the rego's are going up again,albeit not by much.

MAG-NZ may well have been too late to be included on the MSL EG. However, we maintain that the MSL is inequitable, due to similar not being imposed on other classes of driver. Notwithstanding that the $30 was retrospectively applied out of the $174 extra levy. My personal belief is that this was a sop by Nick the Prick to try and avoid a repeat protest at the new levy level. Worked too, didn't it?

Probably about 2.5%. Not much point arguing about the inequality of that, considering everyone's affected.

And argue all you like about the MSL, I'd rather have it that have ALL my increase going to ACC's coffers. At least motorcyclists will get some say about safety measures. The alternative, if we ditch the MSL, is we have NO SAY whatsoever. How is that progress?

[Berries]

The alternative, if we ditch the MSL, is we have NO SAY whatsoever. How is that progress?

All depends on what comes out if it I guess. I asked earlier in this thread if anyone had any ideas on what it may be spent on but nobody put up any suggestions.

Call me cynical, but apart from improved training for new riders I can't see anything. While improved training is a must, I don't see why existing riders should pay for it. What else is there ? I can't imagine anything that would reduce the chances of me becoming an ACC claimant, therefore I agree with what MSTRS said. The levy was a sop to calm the protesting bikers down. Not only did it work, it would appear to have driven a wedge through the riding community. Two birds with one stone.

[Pixie]

All depends on what comes out if it I guess. I asked earlier in this thread if anyone had any ideas on what it may be spent on but nobody put up any suggestions.

Call me cynical, but apart from improved training for new riders I can't see anything. While improved training is a must, I don't see why existing riders should pay for it. What else is there ? I can't imagine anything that would reduce the chances of me becoming an ACC claimant, therefore I agree with what MSTRS said. The levy was a sop to calm the protesting bikers down. Not only did it work, it would appear to have driven a wedge through the riding community. Two birds with one stone.

In Victoria,which the NZTA laud as pure motoring heaven,much of the motorcycle levy is spent making the roads safe for motorcyclists by upgrading construction choices that shouldn't have been considered in the first place.
I predict that we won't even see that much of an effect when the money is pissed away.

[kevie]

All depends on what comes out if it I guess.
Call me cynical, but apart from improved training for new riders I can't see anything. While improved training is a must, I don't see why existing riders should pay for it. What else is there ? I can't imagine anything that would reduce the chances of me becoming an ACC claimant, therefore I agree with what MSTRS said. The levy was a sop to calm the protesting bikers down. Not only did it work, it would appear to have driven a wedge through the riding community. Two birds with one stone.

Yeh guess while im open minded Im also feeling like the Biker community has be "sold out" by the MSL to ACC and our friend Nick...... Its early days for the MSL but they (MSL) are going to have to pull some dam good strings (once they have the details set of how the MSL is going to work) to convince the 'biker comunity' that we havent been shafted yet again (this time by those we looked up to to lead us) But as some have said, the MSL could be a good thing for bikers, But for someone like me that has done 2 road safety sessions and have been riding for 41 years and the only 2 (minor injury) accidents I have had weren't caused by me but an idiot in a cage I can't see the benefits for most of the biker comunity other than the possibility my $30 will improve/lower the overall rate of (injury) accidents and the levies come down, but traditionally I doubt ACC would reduce any levy and in fact just keep the 'profits'.

The ball is in your court now MSL/BRONZ and associated groups, its up to you to convince us you havent sold us out. Im the interum... my support goes to MAG-NZ who .... also.... has the task of convincing the biker comunity they also are worth supporting.

Cetrainly watching the progress from all parties.

[StoneY]

The MSL is from the 140$ increase. It was not added above

Anyone trying to convince you all it was added ABOVE the increase is wrong, plain and simple, and to continue saying so shows your individual and collective ignorance on the matter

[MSTRS:Me]

The MSL is from the 140$ increase. It was not added above

Anyone trying to convince you all it was added ABOVE the increase is wrong, plain and simple, and to continue saying so shows your individual and collective ignorance on the matter

You obviously missed the fact that the increase is $174 for +601cc bikes, and about $75 for -601cc. I already appraised you of that here. Can you point to any literature that disputes this?

[Reckless]

Call me cynical, but apart from improved training for new riders I can't see anything. While improved training is a must, I don't see why existing riders should pay for it. What else is there ? I can't imagine anything that would reduce the chances of me becoming an ACC claimant, therefore I agree with what MSTRS said. The levy was a sop to calm the protesting bikers down. Not only did it work, it would appear to have driven a wedge through the riding community. Two birds with one stone.

In Victoria,which the NZTA laud as pure motoring heaven,much of the motorcycle levy is spent making the roads safe for motorcyclists by upgrading construction choices that shouldn't have been considered in the first place.
I predict that we won't even see that much of an effect when the money is pissed away.

Aside from the fact they will possibly spend 50% of it just administering the allocation of it ???

I have read many Comments like "personally I don't agree with it" said in these posts. Maybe if we didn't agree, we should have told them to jam it and fought it tooth and nail! MAG_NZ's position is quite Clear on this matter! Others made other judgments at the time and it has been quite correctly pointed out that MAG was not around at the time. But this does not mean we have to agree with something we think is inherently wrong. Decisions where made at the time we don't agree with but that doesn't mean we don't think those people involved where not trying to do their best for bikers and motorcycling. And it also doesn't mean we have to agree to it, or live with it now.
We do not believe we should be victimised and levied. Its against the whole principle of ACC its bloody wrong and will never ever be right. We believe MAG or Bronze or Ulysses should be able to go to an individual ACC branch in their area ( or even do it together) and apply for rider training funding on a case on case basis under the scenario that the training they do is going to save ACC money in claims anyway. Self funding as such! Shit how many times has this been done in the ACC arena.

The way I see it we are personally paying for training that is going to save them money in claims as well! We've been stabbed with a double edged sword and who's personally paying for it. We bloody are! When no else pays a "safety levy" for their own "safety" to save ACC money in claims???
Take Skiers! High income, high risk etc etc where is their "safety" levy when they buy a ticket to go up the mountain????

Look we could debate semantics for days but what is done is done, lets agree to disagree and get on with our own projects etc

'Come to the MAG_NZ launch on Sunday or to Taupo in November for the get together/ fundraiser/ ideas/ brainstorming / team building / socialising weekend!
See what we are all about! We welcome the input all of you guys and gals!!

[StoneY]

Aside from the fact they will possibly spend 50% of it just administering the allocation of it ???

Nope
ACC pay all administration costs.
Not one red cent is alloctaed to anything except approved projects.

All admin and setup/secretarial costs are paid by ACC's operations budget

And as for fighting to the end be my guest...if the 9000+ who chanted Bullshit on Parliaments lawn didnt stop the hike in levy's neither will any more smaller protests...and I cant see 9000+ motorcyclists gathering again (this year anyway)

Face it, we played our hand, the levy still went up but by a LOT less than was originally proposed, and of the 140 it went up by 30 of it is OURS to spend......

I still oppose the levy' and believe we should be treated the same as any other road user, but as long as National hold the power we wont see any shift in attitude

The next round in THIS fight, starts next year when the poll booths open and you get a chance to change the government

[MSTRS:Me]

....and of the 140 it went up by 30 of it ....

In the immortal words of Hitcher...Gah! Thud!

You have obviously been swiped by the Nick brush, quoting figures that are wrong, then repeating despite being corrected. We all know what the right amount is/was. You lose all credibility trying to convince us it is otherwise.

[Reckless]

Nope
ACC pay all administration costs.
Not one red cent is alloctaed to anything except approved projects.

All admin and setup/secretarial costs are paid by ACC's operations budget

And as for fighting to the end be my guest...if the 9000+ who chanted Bullshit on Parliaments lawn didnt stop the hike in levy's neither will any more smaller protests...and I cant see 9000+ motorcyclists gathering again (this year anyway)

Face it, we played our hand, the levy still went up but by a LOT less than was originally proposed, and of the 140 it went up by 30 of it is OURS to spend......

I still oppose the levy' and believe we should be treated the same as any other road user, but as long as National hold the power we wont see any shift in attitude

The next round in THIS fight, starts next year when the poll booths open and you get a chance to change the government

Good to hear that Stoney thanks for putting us straight on the Admin side of the situation!

I still wonder how many of the 9000 would have taken your or MAGs stand on the issue?
But that we will never know so its a wasted argument that is unnecessary and divisive at this time.
Hopefully enough bikers will get off their butts and join up!

The next Round!
We are hoping bikers will get off their butts and show our organisations more solidarity by getting out there and supporting the protests against this sort of bullying, cheesecutter and other issues that impact on our survival! For without actual member numbers we are all lost to a certain degree!

Only the future will tell, we at MAG_NZ are attempting to raise the profile of the issues higher with and different approach, more action, and hopefully bikers will be encouraged to follow??
Who know's?? we can but try!

Riders Are Voters (to quote MAG_UK).

[kevie]

Yeh we could all continue to toss our views around while in a way actually agreeing what National/ACC are doing is unfair and in the interum become more fragmented.

As I said earlier, Its all happened and each party feels their way is the best, nows the time for us all to watch the outcomes for the next few months and see if the seeming gamble by MSL is going to pay off for us.

And as Stoney said ..... theres an election comming up and theres the chance to really have your say and even now start TELLING your MP that National has fucked up and doesn't have your vote, and hopefully we change government in the next round, wether that helps or not is to be seen in the next government term.

As for me, im going to watch the biker groups with an open mind, and come election time ..... plan to vote for a minor party, have had enough of both Labour and National.

But the priority for the bikers success is to stay united, wether we side with MAG or BRONZ or totally agree with MSL, we are all working to the same goal just in different ways .... thats to get us bikers a fair deal.

[caseye]

As always and as usual there are the knockers.How many times does the spokesman for BRONZ NZ have to say that he "supports MAG-NZ's formation and their fundaental right to exist?
how many times do those of us who have decided to continue our action Campaign agaisnt Nick Smiths proposeed ACC changes have to say that any other existing or about o be formed Motorcycle group have a perfect right to fight the levy increases as they see fit.
Before it becomes clear to any and all motorcyclists that they can join both/all motorcyclist groups and still have a concerted say.
In the first week of October 2010 there is a meeting being held, it is for all motorcycle groups, current and perhaps still to be formed and it is to establish a basic set of rules that all grou-s can abide by in their direct deaings with the current NZ Govt.

For pitys sake when those here who are kicking hardest against a new and vibrant group realise that that goup is not anti any other, simply coming from a different perspective and attracting members at a rate unheard of in the scheme of things, because their advocacy isn't too radical but action based and WILL be followed up by personal action and group actions to ensurethat their concerns are herard and addressed.

[kevie]

As always and as usual there are the knockers.How many times does the spokesman for BRONZ NZ have to say that he "supports MAG-NZ's formation and their fundaental right to exist?
how many times do those of us who have decided to continue our action Campaign agaisnt Nick Smiths proposeed ACC changes have to say that any other existing or about o be formed Motorcycle group have a perfect right to fight the levy increases as they see fit.
Before it becomes clear to any and all motorcyclists that they can join both/all motorcyclist groups and still have a concerted say.
.

WELL SAID While everyone has a view and opinion lets keep open minded and give all the groups a chance to settle and see how they go.

ooohhh and another coalburner rider eh lol I have modified mine so gone to burning Carbonettes instead now (dam I must be older than my bike too to remember Carbonettes)

[Ronin]

The next round in THIS fight, starts next year when the poll booths open and you get a chance to change the government

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!

Yeah good one... Oh wait. Your not joking?

[StoneY]

In the immortal words of Hitcher...Gah! Thud!

You have obviously been swiped by the Nick brush, quoting figures that are wrong, then repeating despite being corrected. .

Actually MSTRS I have been researching this issue dilligently since I read the post your link pointed to
I was refraining from making any reply to that untill I had checked all FORMAL sources ( I am trying hard to ensure solid facts this time so a post on KB is hardly the source for verifying actual facts is it?)

I have checked a number of sources at both ACC and then compared the costs in the real world to the situation and you know, I was WRONG!

I am buggered if I can find where I got 140 from now but originally I was assured that it was a total of 140 in increase for over 601cc bikes so I have stuck with that figure as it was what I had.

With due research it seems that is an incorrect figure and you may well be right it appears the full increase for 601cc+ bikes is in fact $174.00, which is inclusive of the MSL fund levy
This is obvious when comparing the itemised registration breakdown from 2009, to one from 2010 for an RF900

I was mistaken and will ensure my figures are more accurate heading forward

There you go mate, I admit I was mistaken, you can even use the word WRONG I dont care

But if you think I am going to treat your pointing me at another post on KB as 'evidence' well fellah....think again
After all avenues o to find these facts have been exhausted I am simply awaiting full copies of all MSL press releases, and a transcript of what Nick Smith announced on Dec 10th before I challenge this any further.

Bottom line, regardless of the final ammount the levy increase came to, we get control of a part of the money, for OUR causes

Its highly unlikely I will have any future input with MSL after the steering committee winds up this month on the 29th

IF thats the case I will still hold my head high knowing that despite the fact the levy still went up, and despite the fact some people still think its possible to continue to resist a fait accompli by the sitting government, I did my share to fight the unfair levy raise.

I worked harder than ANYONE to arrange the massive protest last year, sacrficed far more than I could afford to in doing so as well
And since, I have actively worked to ensure we get value for our money from ACC

BRONZ Wellington are initiating a road safety partnership with various regional and national official organizations, (totally seperate from the MSL) and we helped revamp the Ride Forever website earlier this year


I STILL OPPOSE being treated different from other road users, can I change that? No ..... not with this government in power

Can I do any more??
Yes ..... and intend to, and if you also vote against the sitting government next year maybe...just maybe...we might end up with a Motorcyclist for PM...who knows maybe we will get one as ACC minister even
Theres a thought...........