The Hon. Judith Collins and her trusty coppers wonder why they have so little respect

[BoristheBiter]

Because NZ speeding laws are stupid, right now iam on a holiday in europe and its a dream over here as 140Km/h is a "cruising" speed on a open road...

Have you noticed the difference in the quality and size of the open roads or the driving level?

i agree its not neccesarily fault of NZ police but fault of public for being bunch monkeys who cannot drive for shit

we agree on that.

and NZ politicians who take the easiest way to reduce road toll ..imposing retarded speed limits and anti boyracer laws and other such travesties...

This is because of the previous statemant, always work to the lowest common denominator.

I'm not getting into the speed debate again.

[BoristheBiter]

No, not necessarily a cop bashing thread, more a criticism of some ridiculous attitudes by the police that do them no favours and have cost them a lot of respect.

As i said it took 5 pages to become one.
I agree that some cops need to dial it down and get off there little crusades, but if you spend all day with people lieing to you you end up treating everyone the same, not right but it comes with the territory.

When the cop stopped you you could have said "no, because of the exhaust it sounds like i'm going faster than I am" but you argued and he would have thourght here we go again.

Not saying it would have gone any better but you never know he might have just been anti-bike like so many are getting these days.

[MSTRS:Me]

So, the ones that do traffic 50% of the time are only pissed of with Joe Public 50% of the time??

That'll explain why there's not often a cop available for a burg or what ever.
Traffic only do traffic. GD do traffic 50% of the time.
SD said so...

[shrub]

As i said it took 5 pages to become one.
I agree that some cops need to dial it down and get off there little crusades, but if you spend all day with people lieing to you you end up treating everyone the same, not right but it comes with the territory.

When the cop stopped you you could have said "no, because of the exhaust it sounds like i'm going faster than I am" but you argued and he would have thourght here we go again.

Not saying it would have gone any better but you never know he might have just been anti-bike like so many are getting these days.

or maybe I should have just said "sorry officer, it won't happen again". I'm a 50 year old educated professional and I don't like being spoken to like a naughty school boy by some idiot in a uniform.

The police are facing a major credibility problem, and that is resulting in an increase in crime as evidenced by people not pulling over when stopped and a seeming complete disregard for the law, especially by young people. Giving them more power or increasing sentences won't help in the same way that invading Iraq and Afghanistan didn't stop islaamic extremism, but what will help is the public developing an attitude of respect for the police. If we respect them, when they say "slow down"; we will. If the police are respected then people won't joke about beating them up, boy racers won't see outrunning a cop as a badge of honour and the crime rate will almost certainly fall, for the simple reason that 99.9% of people will listen to someone they respect and take them seriously.

That's my opinion.

[BoristheBiter]

or maybe I should have just said "sorry officer, it won't happen again". I'm a 50 year old educated professional and I don't like being spoken to like a naughty school boy by some idiot in a uniform.

The police are facing a major credibility problem, and that is resulting in an increase in crime as evidenced by people not pulling over when stopped and a seeming complete disregard for the law, especially by young people. Giving them more power or increasing sentences won't help in the same way that invading Iraq and Afghanistan didn't stop islaamic extremism, but what will help is the public developing an attitude of respect for the police. If we respect them, when they say "slow down"; we will. If the police are respected then people won't joke about beating them up, boy racers won't see outrunning a cop as a badge of honour and the crime rate will almost certainly fall, for the simple reason that 99.9% of people will listen to someone they respect and take them seriously.

That's my opinion.

None of us do.

But look at your next bit, young people learn from older people, you look at how many sit on here and cry about getting a ticket for 11k over the speed limit. it is speeding, but all the younger generations see is "the pigs gave me a ticket for speeding".
So when they start driving/riding they have the same attaude "pigs are bad", "i can drive as fast as i want".

Look at the statment you said at the top,
"I don't like being spoken to like a naughty school boy by some idiot in a uniform"
Even if you were in the wrong? You were being a naughty school boy, by your own admission you said you gave it it a "bit of a squit" with loud pipes when you knew there was a cop there, then argued with him when he pulled up to you.
So who was the bigger idiot?

If you want repest by the police show them the same respect by abiding by the laws (they inforce them not make them) by calling them by their proper title (call someone a pig and they will treat you like one) and get off their backs for doing there jobs.
And if you think they don't solve real crime ask Carmans family about.

[imdying]

You are twisting the truth here....people respect most cops until cops open their mouth!

You need to stop equating what you do, with what 'people' do. Your attitude towards the police isn't reflected by the majority... and if you don't see that from looking around, you might want to consider getting a new set of mates...

[shrub]

Look at the statment you said at the top,
"I don't like being spoken to like a naughty school boy by some idiot in a uniform"
Even if you were in the wrong? You were being a naughty school boy, by your own admission you said you gave it it a "bit of a squit" with loud pipes when you knew there was a cop there, then argued with him when he pulled up to you.
So who was the bigger idiot?

If you want repest by the police show them the same respect by abiding by the laws (they inforce them not make them) by calling them by their proper title (call someone a pig and they will treat you like one) and get off their backs for doing there jobs.

Thank you for your reply, but there are a couple of things I need to counter. For a start, I wasn't a "naughty boy", and never admitted to it. I gave my bike a bit of a squirt, probably for a couple of seconds I had about 1/2 - 2/3 throttle, and I don't have loud pipes. I have pipes that sound awesome - my bike sounds like a Spitfire, and I quite like the sound. For me, a big part of the pleasure of owning a bike is the sound and one of the great things about my bike is you don't need to cane it for it to sound good; in fact it sounds it's best at medium throttle. On Saturday I was passing through Cheviot, and out of curiosity I repeated the excercise, only this time it was a dry road and I did use full throttle - I hit just under 60 before I had to brake for the cafe. Therefore my argument that I was not doing 60 - 65 as asserted by the agressive and confrontational police officer stands.

I was abiding by every law I know of as I doubt I got over 50 kmh, so I was showing respect for the law. However a cop who (a) I believe didn't see me as evidenced by having to ask if I had just left the gas station and (b) had no radar reading of my speed felt it was acceptable to be rude and confrontational to a member of the public who had not actually broken any laws.

I don't know of any group, outside of agressive drunks, who feel it is acceptable to verbally attack a complete stranger with no valid cause beyond their (unfounded) opinion of something. My issue is that if he treated me like that, who else does he treat that way? All bikers? Did he feel that he was somehow better than me because I was wearing leather and a helmet? Does he treat kids in cars like that too?

And is his behaviour an isolated incident from a renegade cop, or is it endemic? I was speaking to a young woman the other day who is a woman in her 30s, a very well paid and respected manager who just happens to drive a "boy racer" car. She says she gets pulled over all the time and the attitude I described is not uncommon, even though she is almost anal about playing by the rules. As a result she has no respect for cops.

Therefore it would seem to me that there are probably quite a few cops who behave like that, and their behaviour they are undermining the respect the public hold for the police and thereby damaging our civil society.

And I don't believe I called anyone a pig - it's a term I dislike, so if I did I apologise and take it back.

[BoristheBiter]

Thank you for your reply, .................

...........................And I don't believe I called anyone a pig - it's a term I dislike, so if I did I apologise and take it back.

You seamed to have missed my point or i didn't express it well eough.

What you consider to be a nice sound might not be to everone's taste as IMHO the sound of a loud exhust just screams look at me i'm an attention seeking wanker just like some think the same about jappers.

Also you might have come across as a bit rude when talking to him, whether it was intended or not as some posts in here are not taken the way they are intended.
Take your friend, what is the first thing shes says when talked to by the police.

I used to work in a bar in the UK after 3 months of sheep jokes i had pretty much had enough so when anyone said a sheep joke i just thought what a wanker and held that thought so even if they were a nice person it was that first impression that stuck, also things went on in the bars that weren't allowed so we had to stop people have "their" fun so were called all the names so we stopped being polite in the end.

So the cop you got might be a dick (and there are a few) or might have had a bad day (and we have all had those and passed them on), or maybe he has just enough and doesn't really give a toss as he gets paid either way, i know most of the cops i know don't and remember people deal with the police maybe once a year, the police deal with this everyday.

If you want to get what i mean, listen to newstalkZB for a full day (as boring as that sounds) and i'll bet by the end of the day your less tolerant than normal.

[Winston001]

You are twisting the truth here....people respect most cops until cops open their mouth! Thats where they loose their respect and its all downhill from there...

No, I'm not twisting the truth. The false adage "I won't respect you until you earn my respect" pops up on KB quite often, as well as on talkback radio and in general discussion. It is completely the wrong attitude but fortunately people do not behave that way. Except when it comes to the police.

Unfortunately i cannot respect someone who doesnt respect me and instantly assumes i am criminal scum and treats me that way....

This I understand but frankly I'm puzzled.

I've thought about this, having had a few tickets over the years, and racked my memory. I cannot ever remember being treated like criminal scum or rudely or anything objectionable by police officers. Where are all these bad snakes?? I've never met them. In fact the officers I've encountered have been apologetic about issuing a ticket.

Maybe those of us who have the bad experiences should look in the mirror to see what the police encounter when they meet.....

[scumdog]

No, not necessarily a cop bashing thread, more a criticism of some ridiculous attitudes by SOME OF the police that do them no favours and have cost them a lot of respect.

I fixed it for you!

[scumdog]

That'll explain why there's not often a cop available for a burg or what ever.
Traffic only do traffic. GD do traffic 50% of the time.
SD said so...

Nice troll...where did I say ALL GD do traffic 50% of the time??? (In fact bugger-all do traffic anywhere like 50% of the time)

[shrub]

I used to work in a bar in the UK after 3 months of sheep jokes i had pretty much had enough so when anyone said a sheep joke i just thought what a wanker and held that thought so even if they were a nice person it was that first impression that stuck, also things went on in the bars that weren't allowed so we had to stop people have "their" fun so were called all the names so we stopped being polite in the end.

So the cop you got might be a dick (and there are a few) or might have had a bad day (and we have all had those and passed them on), or maybe he has just enough and doesn't really give a toss as he gets paid either way, i know most of the cops i know don't and remember people deal with the police maybe once a year, the police deal with this everyday.

If you want to get what i mean, listen to newstalkZB for a full day (as boring as that sounds) and i'll bet by the end of the day your less tolerant than normal.

It comes down to professionalism. When I heard him i was admiring a classic Rolls Royce parked on the side of the road, and thought that he was going to comment on it himself - "bloody nice machine, ay?", and I had a smile on my face. Instead I got a rude, aggressive and confrontational man, and that's unprofessional.

I used to work as a bouncer, and even at 3.00 am on a cold wet night where I'd been dealing with drunks all night I was polite and courteous regardless what the other person was saying or doing. A typical case:

Shrub: "I'm sorry sir, I can't let you in the bar"
Obnxious Drunk: "Why the fuck not?"
Shrub: "You exceed the standards of intoxication we are allowed in the bar"
OD: "Fuck off, I'm not pissed"
Shrub: "I'm sorry sir, we have a very low threshold here"
OD: "You're a cunt and I'll smack you if you don't let me in"
Shrub: "I'm sorry sir, I can't do that. I suggest you come back tomorrow when you're sober and I'll welcome you"

That was a typical scenario that played out several times a night, and we were required to remain calm, courteous and professional at all times despite being threatened, abused and more. As a result we had almost no physical confrontations and ran a safe and popular bar. If I had been as confrontational as the constable in question i'd have been sacked on the spot.

Is it too much to expect police officers to be as professional as bouncers?

[MSTRS:Me]

...If I had been as confrontational as the constable in question i'd have been sacked on the spot.

Before that, you'd have triggered the drunk/s into taking a swing. The sacking would just complete your attitude adjustment.

[BoristheBiter]

It comes down to professionalism. When I heard him i was admiring a classic Rolls Royce parked on the side of the road, and thought that he was going to comment on it himself - "bloody nice machine, ay?", and I had a smile on my face. Instead I got a rude, aggressive and confrontational man, and that's unprofessional.

I used to work as a bouncer, and even at 3.00 am on a cold wet night where I'd been dealing with drunks all night I was polite and courteous regardless what the other person was saying or doing. A typical case:

Shrub: "I'm sorry sir, I can't let you in the bar"
Obnxious Drunk: "Why the fuck not?"
Shrub: "You exceed the standards of intoxication we are allowed in the bar"
OD: "Fuck off, I'm not pissed"
Shrub: "I'm sorry sir, we have a very low threshold here"
OD: "You're a cunt and I'll smack you if you don't let me in"
Shrub: "I'm sorry sir, I can't do that. I suggest you come back tomorrow when you're sober and I'll welcome you"

That was a typical scenario that played out several times a night, and we were required to remain calm, courteous and professional at all times despite being threatened, abused and more. As a result we had almost no physical confrontations and ran a safe and popular bar. If I had been as confrontational as the constable in question i'd have been sacked on the spot.

Is it too much to expect police officers to be as professional as bouncers?

So you do know what its like then.
How many bouncers are not cut out for the job but still are bouncers? end of discussion really.

[shrub]

So you do know what its like then.
How many bouncers are not cut out for the job but still are bouncers? end of discussion really.

First I don't pay the bouncers and I know where the bad ones work so I avoid those bars, but more importantly bouncers aren't complaining that they don't get the respect they want. If the police want to be respected then maybe they need to look at the behaviour of all their staff.

Aggressive and confrontational behaviour is pointless and unnesccesary - a few months ago I was pulled up for travelling far too fast. The cop got out of his car, introduced himself, shook my hand and advised me how fast he had got me for. Even though I had broken the law (by quite a margin) he was courteous and pleasant - I bloody near thanked him for the ticket. The last thing he said was "The road through the hunderlees is good and the traffic is light, take it easy but enjoy the ride". He was a professional.

BTW I am actually quite glad i got that ticket - it slowed me down, something that needed to happen.