Group rides

**Motoracer** · 8th June 2005, 11:39

Sure we can do more to reduce the number of bins but to expect 0% bins on the rides seem a bit unrealistic.

The statement "ride at your own pace" is valid but quite a few times, people still crash while riding at their own pace. n00bs are more likely to crash as they lack experience and skill but experts sometimes can crash for a number of reasons as well.

So you should go out on as many rides as possible to gain as much skill and experience as possible to get out of the vunerable position of a n00b and become a safer rider. Ride at your own pace or beyond that if you choose to improve your riding but take a step at a time. If you never push your self and ride within the bubble of your comfort zone, you'll never really improve (if that is your goal in the first place). The key here is taking your time with it and if you want to, push your self little by little to gain more skill. If you take big jumps and bite more than what you can chew, then you run the risk of crashing even more, so pace your learning curve if you can't afford the hospital bills and repair bills.

With experiance greater safety will come as you will know how to control a bike better out of hairy situations or you will know better by not getting into that hairy situation in the first place. Even after all this, crashes can still happen, to anyone! It's a fact of life. All we can do is prevent crashes to the best of our abilities.

Oh yea, after crashes don't forget to anaylise it and learn from it the best you can so that you can try not to repeat the same mistake next time.

Ride safe, take care out there.

**vifferman** · 8th June 2005, 12:16

It's all very well to talk about "riding at your own pace", but it's a phenomenon of group rides that people tend to sometimes ride faster due to the whole 'racer mentality' thing happening. It takes an awful lot of maturity and self-control to not get sucked in by that, once a bit of adrenaline starts flowing.

And you can't say it doesn't happen, because the comments written after these rides show that (for some people at least) that's part of what the ride's about.

If you're a slower rider and the bulk of the group are travelling faster than you, it's difficult not to feel that either you're holding everyone up, or that you're being left behind, or both. Given that one of the main reasons for going on a group ride is the commaraderie of being part of the group, lagging behind sort of defeats the point of being on the ride at all.

**eliot-ness** · 8th June 2005, 12:22

I think we're missing an important point here. Newbe riders don't jut lack riding skills. For many it will be their first long ride. They have other worries, Breakdowns, punctures, taking a wrong turn, embarrassment at keeping others waiting. A of which are enough to make them want to keep in touch. Good organising can allay most of their fears. Issue detailed instructions for route and planned stops. Use cell phones if possible to get in touch with missing riders. All riders have at least two numbers they can call in an emergency. Have a minimum 15 minutes at each planned stop. At start of ride let slower guys set off 10 inutes before the rest.
Don't have a fast guy bringing up the rear. Inexperienced newbe's may think they have to impress. Most important of all. Don't treat it as a group ride. Motor cyclists are by nature individuals. Leave the herd instinct to car drivers and H. D. clubs

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The early bird gets the worm. The second mouse gets the cheese

**justsomeguy** · 8th June 2005, 12:31

What a load of balooney.........

As a newbie to riding (only been riding the odd weekend day since Dec)

I can say that in every THAT'S EVERY ride I've been on I've had people wait for me - sometimes long enough for them to take off their helmets and group for a chat seated at the side of the road.

If I've taken a wrong turn which I did on two rides I've had riders come looking for me and lead me back to a waiting group. At every ride people have been supportive and understand that I'm learning and always offer me their advice and support.

This ridiculous issue: If you ride faster than you can handle you'll crash

isn't it obvious

................has been argued so much I hope this thread gets shifted to the pointless drivel section.

Yes I too have crashed as have a lot of people here. So if the newbies still can't figure out that they are not immortal riding Gods then too bad.........

I mean come on!!! How many of you went to the gym and in the first week tried to lift heavier weights than those 200kg 7 ft Islanders, or joined a martial arts class and challenged the toughest most experienced guy in the class to a fight?? Or started a new job and expected to break performance records in the first day??Or planned to loose all the weight you expected to loose in the first week???

Huh??? If the comments above seem kinda obvious then how do you seem to suddenly develop this "racer mentality"??????

**Motoracer** · 8th June 2005, 12:46

As just some guy said. Peer pressure has never been an issue on one of the KB rides. Sure the n00bs may naturally feel like they should try harder to impress or simply keep up with the faster guys but during the ride they will be told time and time again that there is no need to do this and the group is more than happy to wait until everyone arrives safely.

Honestly, what do you think people want more? Wait for say a max of 5-15mins for someone really slow to arrive safely or to have to go back and sacrifice the whole ride by spending the next hour or so sorting out a trailer for the sorry looking bike and an ambo or a pillion ride for the unlucky person. No one wants that, so when slower riders are welcomed to come in the first place, everyone attending the ride accepts the responcibility of waiting for them to catch up. Anyone who REALLY doesn't want to wait around can go for a ride on their own, which has happened in the past.

**Two Smoker** · 8th June 2005, 12:52

Originally Posted by Motoracer

. Anyone who REALLY doesn't want to wait around can go for a ride on their own, which has happened in the past.

Motoracer: "Hey alex, im bored can i ride your bike?"
sAsLEX: "Yep sure thing, you crash it you fix it."
Two Smoker: "Alex, you are an idiot... you do realise this is Sudeep we are talking about..."

*Following 5 minutes listen to a VFR400 hitting the rev limiter in most gears*

Motoracer then comes arond corner cranked right over with knee on ground...

Two Smoker: "Well there go your chicken strips.."

Hehehe...

**chickenfunkstar** · 8th June 2005, 13:00

Certainly was impressive to watch / hear

**Motoracer** · 8th June 2005, 13:01

Originally Posted by Motoracer

Honestly, what do you think people want more? Wait for say a max of 5-15mins for someone really slow to arrive safely or to have to go back and sacrifice the whole ride by spending the next hour or so sorting out a trailer for the sorry looking bike and an ambo or a pillion ride for the unlucky person. No one wants that, so when slower riders are welcomed to come in the first place, everyone attending the ride accepts the responcibility of waiting for them to catch up. Anyone who REALLY doesn't want to wait around can go for a ride on their own, which has happened in the past.

BTW, I am not implying that you should feel bad once you HAVE crashed. Once it has happened, everyone in the group will genuinly do their best to get you sorted with out any other questions asked. It's what the brotherhood of KB is all about. So we shouldn't feel bad about the times we have crashed, we just have to try our best not to do it in the future. If it happens, then everything will be taken care of by your riding mates, you can count on that while on a KB ride.

P.S. Ummmm yea.... guilty as charged for having a bit of a hoon on the ol viffer 400

**vifferman** · 8th June 2005, 13:11

Originally Posted by justsomeguy

What a load of balooney.........

As a newbie to riding (only been riding the odd weekend day since Dec)

I can say that in every THAT'S EVERY ride I've been on I've had people wait for me - sometimes long enough for them to take off their helmets and group for a chat seated at the side of the road.

If I've taken a wrong turn which I did on two rides I've had riders come looking for me and lead me back to a waiting group. At every ride people have been supportive and understand that I'm learning and always offer me their advice and support.

I didn't say that people didn't wait at turnoffs, etc. (Although I have been on rides where the group took off 'like a bat out of hell' and keeping up was hard.)

I said: "If you're a slower rider and the bulk of the group are travelling faster than you, it's difficult not to feel that either you're holding everyone up, or that you're being left behind, or both."
If you're travelling slower than everyone else, you come to a turnoff and everyone's waiting, and you've no idea how long they've been there, unless you're a selfish git, it's difficult to not feel like you're holding everyone up.

Originally Posted by Motoracer

Peer pressure has never been an issue on one of the KB rides.

Peer pressure needn't come from others; some people feel they need to keep up, despite being told they don't need to. The fact that you explain to noobs that they don't need to feel this is a good thing, and should help alleviate the tendency to push themselves for whatever reason.

However, no-one can deny excitement that there is on group rides, which can stimulate the competitive nature of males, the willingness to show off to obtain approval, or to (metaphorically) flex muscles when with a group.
What gets talked about at rest stops? The weather? Politics? :spudwhat:

The favourite topics are how fast corners were taken, overtaking manoeuvres, speeds attained, stunts, etc.

Other stuff happens too. I've been on a (non KB) ride where the group was lead by a cruiser, travelling at a nice - well, - cruisy pace. Unfortunately, the roads were fabulously winding, the traffic was light, and there were a large number of sportsbikes in the group, so it was too much for some of us, and we passed the leader and made our own pace for a while. And quite right too, unless it's one of those regimented rides where it's strictly verboten to pass the leader.

Look - don't get me wrong. I don't ride a bike because it's cheap transport (it's not) - it's all about the sensations, the feeling of speed, getting in 'the zone' when taking a series of corners just so, the whole experience, and that includes sharing that experience with others. Yes, motorcycling's basically a solitary endeavour, but like any pleasurable activity, it's more fun when it's shared with other like-minded individuals. Why else are group rides so popular? And when humans are in groups, they tend to behave somewhat differently on occasion than they do when on their own. Vehemently denying that this happens doesn't make it go away.

My point is that if this 'phenomenon' is taken into account, and people are aware of it, then the possibility exists for eliminating some potentially tragic and completely avoidable incidents. I'm not pointing the finger or blaming anyone, just stating an opinion.

**Ixion** · 8th June 2005, 13:23

Originally Posted by vifferman

I didn't say that people didn't wait at turnoffs, etc.

I said: "If you're a slower rider and the bulk of the group are travelling faster than you, it's difficult not to feel that either you're holding everyone up, or that you're being left behind, or both."
If you're travelling slower than everyone else, you come to a turnoff and everyone's waiting, and you've no idea how long they've been there, unless you're a selfish git, it's difficult to not feel like you're holding everyone up.
..

Pretty much. My own experience on group rides (not, I will say, KB ones) is that yes, the fast riders wait for slower ones to catch up.

Being an official nana, I'm usually a slow one.

So what that means is that I come tootling up, and there's abunch of riders waiting at an intersection etc.

As soon as they see me heave into sight, I see the fingers go down on starter buttons and puffs of smoke from exhausts. And I can almost hear the muttered "At last, Where they hell has he been"

Then there is this mass exodus, of sports bikes heading down the road , scrabbling past each other, gear change lights flashing as they power up toward the 200+ kph mark. Like as not on one wheel

Followed by the crescendo whine of the 250 wannabe multis , heading after them redlining everything at 20000 rpm , scratching frantically through the first corner. As like as not on the wrong side of the road.

Which leaves me, tootling past the intersection, maybe stopping for a moment to confirm that everythings OK with the designated marshall. Who then also disappears into the distance ,desperate to catch up.

So I continue on at my steady hundred and sumpfink.

For all practcial purposes I'm riding alone anyway. The only time I see the others is as they disappear. It's not really a group ride as far as I'm concerned.

So I might as well elect to ride alone, where at least I'm not holding others up, and I can explore side roads if I want to.

And in the end I often get there quicker than the sports bikes. The secret of progress on the road is a good steady speed. Maintained up hill and down dale, as unvaryingly as possible.

**Motoracer** · 8th June 2005, 13:28

Originally Posted by vifferman

My point is that if this 'phenomenon' is taken into account, and people are aware of it, then the possibility exists for eliminating some potentially tragic and completely avoidable incidents. I'm not pointing the finger or blaming anyone, just stating an opinion.

Yes, you are correct and like you said, it takes a lot of maturity to make the right judgement. Some people already have high maturity levels from the begining and they crash a lot less or never crash with a bit of luck, while some others with low levels of maturity crash a hell of a lot more.

What can you do? It's really up to the rider and what goes through his/her head while riding a bike.

Even after spending millions of $$ on racing a MotoGP bike, it all comes down to what goes on inside the head of a racer. It'll mean the difference between crashing out and winning the world championship. No one can force them to make the right or wrong decision once they are on the bike and racing them. Like wise, what can you really do once all the advice has been given? It is really up to the rider at the end of the day.

**vifferman** · 8th June 2005, 13:33

Good stuff, Motoracer.

Originally Posted by Ixion

Pretty much. My own experience on group rides (not, I will say, KB ones) is that yes, the fast riders wait for slower ones to catch up....etc etc...
So I might as well elect to ride alone, where at least I'm not holding others up, and I can explore side roads if I want to.

Nah! I can't believe that! Sounds like a fairy story to me.

**Motoracer** · 8th June 2005, 13:35

Originally Posted by Ixion

Pretty much. My own experience on group rides (not, I will say, KB ones) is that yes, the fast riders wait for slower ones to catch up.

Being an official nana, I'm usually a slow one.

So what that means is that I come tootling up, and there's abunch of riders waiting at an intersection etc.

As soon as they see me heave into sight, I see the fingers go down on starter buttons and puffs of smoke from exhausts. And I can almost hear the muttered "At last, Where they hell has he been"

Then there is this mass exodus, of sports bikes heading down the road , scrabbling past each other, gear change lights flashing as they power up toward the 200+ kph mark. Like as not on one wheel

Followed by the crescendo whine of the 250 wannabe multis , heading after them redlining everything at 20000 rpm , scratching frantically through the first corner. As like as not on the wrong side of the road.

Which leaves me, tootling past the intersection, maybe stopping for a moment to confirm that everythings OK with the designated marshall. Who then also disappears into the distance ,desperate to catch up.

So I continue on at my steady hundred and sumpfink.

For all practcial purposes I'm riding alone anyway. The only time I see the others is as they disappear. It's not really a group ride as far as I'm concerned.

So I might as well elect to ride alone, where at least I'm not holding others up, and I can explore side roads if I want to.

And in the end I often get there quicker than the sports bikes. The secret of progress on the road is a good steady speed. Maintained up hill and down dale, as unvaryingly as possible.

This is where the clash of paces and riding styles happen. A very valid point there Ixion and I don't know how you could make this situation better... The only point or reason for a slower "nana" type of rider to tag along with a faster group would be to socialise at longer stops like a lunch break really, which to me personally is the whole idea about group rides, which is to meet people.