Cool pro-biking article in the NZ Herald

[Katman]

"I'd bet over 80 per cent of the accidents involving motorcycles were caused by a car or truck driver, or something else with a roof."

Sounds like Mr Thompson needs to get a fucking clue.

[p.dath]

Really? I would have thought the thing that makes me safe on a bike is maturity and being able to 'read' the traffic.

The thing is on a bike you have to be much better at reading the traffic - and there are more dangers on a bike, so some things that don't register to car drivers can be very bad for motorcycle riders.

And the problem with most car drivers is they think they are "good" drivers. Easy statistic, 50% of the drivers on the road are average or below average.

[Latte]

Although I definitely believe the older you are the more aware of the dangers etc you are, I don't think an automatic reduction in the Licensing system is appropriate, a couple of years on a smaller bike is probably a good idea, the people that are in a hurry to move up are probably the ones that aren't ready to anyway.

In saying that I benefited from the existing 25+ system, and ride a 100hp+ bike a little over a year after starting my license path. So everything I've said can be treated as bullshit.

[Luckylegs]

The thing is on a bike you have to be much better at reading the traffic

Other than situations like lane splitting (which cars obviously can't do) I cant see why this would be true. I like to avoid having my car (mainly cos its my wifes and she'd be far from impressed) hit just as much as the bike. As a result I find I need to read the traffic just as much in the car, as I do on the bike, as I get just as many numpties pulling into my lane without indicating when Im in the car as I do when on the bike.

- and there are more dangers on a bike, so some things that don't register to car drivers can be very bad for motorcycle riders.

There might be different dangers, and the consequences may be worse but I would disagree that there are more dangers...

And the problem with most car drivers is they think they are "good" drivers. Easy statistic, 50% of the drivers on the road are average or below average.

Yep, maybe. I wonder though, how many of the Average/Below average drivers are becoming motorcyclists. I woulda thunk that the ones who cause us the most grief. Ie the ones who are essentially asleep while driving (or distracted drinking coffee while clipping their toenails and plugging in the iPod at the same time) are probably not going to give up their luxury motoring for smelly, cold, dirty dangerous motorcycle.

...Maybe it all comes back to better training and, just as importantly, assessing skill on an individual basis in real world conditions rather than a one size fits all.

[Luckylegs]

...So everything I've said can be treated as bullshit.

I read it and didnt bother waiting for the permission...
p/t

[R-Soul]

I've stopped letting people in, in a lot of situations... well, attempting to let them in... why? Because I slow, they slow, I slow down more, beep my horn, flash my lights, all the while still slowing down and they still don't get the hint.

Worst is when a car has pulled onto the median strip from a side road, and looking to merge with the lane. Seems like its a big ask to get them to accelerate up to speed, then merge into a gap between vehicles. Same on the flipping motorway onramps. Seriously? How hard is it?

Well its become alot harder since teh freaking government has put in this stupid traffic lights. Its like the governmnet has no idea that HAVING speed is essential for merging smoothly, so that there is no speed differential. The fact that they have placed those damn traffic lights there means that almost no normal cars can actually get up to motorway speeds by the time they have to merge (without drag racing down the onramp). Most cars are curteous and let other cars go ahead, and speed up slowly, and hit the mortorway merging at 80kph, forcing the motorway users to jam on brakes to let them in. DUMB!

[Gremlin]

Most cars are curteous and let other cars go ahead, and speed up slowly, and hit the mortorway merging at 80kph,

You have better drivers in your part of the city... I've merged onto motorways at 40-50kph stuck behind a car intent on having me killed by another

I've even had cars behind me (but on the motorway) simply refuse to back off a bit, give a bit of a gap, and come right alongside, blocking my entry to the motorway. Considering I do about 15k a year in and around Auckland City, the stupidity is neverending

[ukusa]

Funny how the govt. can put in such a "complicated" thing such as power to weight ratios when deciding on what bikes a learner can ride, BUT when it came to the ACC levy they put a simple 2 tier system in place. 600cc plus was deemed a big dangerous fast bike, therefore obviously responsible for the majority of accidents.

If "learners" are the most at risk on our roads, shouldn't the learner bikes have the largest ACC portion?

[Latte]

I read it and didnt bother waiting for the permission...
p/t

I was meaning everything I've said, from the 1st time I said "Da da" as a nipper

But agree with your other post, it's about training and proving you have the skills as an aindividual, not just an abitrary age (or being able to afford the BS driver skill course).

[p.dath]

Funny how the govt. can put in such a "complicated" thing such as power to weight ratios when deciding on what bikes a learner can ride, BUT when it came to the ACC levy they put a simple 2 tier system in place. 600cc plus was deemed a big dangerous fast bike, therefore obviously responsible for the majority of accidents.

If "learners" are the most at risk on our roads, shouldn't the learner bikes have the largest ACC portion?

Careful with those kinds of arguments. We don't want motorcycles being divided and targeted for ACC levies.
We want the original principles of ACC from the Woodhouse report upheld - that the cost be born evenly amongst all community users. As Woodhouse says, you can't different the "cost" of a group if you don't consider the "benefit" that same group offers to the community (which is the true total cost) - and he found that the cost of working this out was so great that it would loose any benefit.

[Pixie]

While it will reduce the amount of turning accidents, I bet now while waiting in the middle of the road for all traffic to disperse, there will be an increase in nose to tail accidents.

Maybe New Zealand should change to driving on the righthand side of the road too, think of the tourists.

Fanny.

Perhaps kiwis will stop driving into stationary objects and pay attention to the road ahead

[p.dath]

Other than situations like lane splitting (which cars obviously can't do) I cant see why this would be true. I like to avoid having my car (mainly cos its my wifes and she'd be far from impressed) hit just as much as the bike. As a result I find I need to read the traffic just as much in the car, as I do on the bike, as I get just as many numpties pulling into my lane without indicating when Im in the car as I do when on the bike.

An examples. Cars can't vary there position greatly in most lanes, especially while cornering. Motorcycles are much narrower and can. So straight away you have a choice of lane position on a bike that doesn't exist in a car.

Another example. Throttle control in a car while cornering is not so crucial. In an automatic you have even less control.
On a motorcycle good throttle control while cornering improves your stability on the bike, and how tight you can make your cornering line (or rather, affects your ability to vary the corner line and make it tighter).

Another example. Car drivers don't need to plan out cornering lines in advance. Most times a car can simply come up to a corner, set their entry speed, and their done.
When your on a motorcycle, especially if there are two or more corners in a row, you really need to be looking ahead to plan out where you want to be on each corner (entry, during and exit).

There are lots of examples like this. The "average" car driving skills will not help someone on a motorcycle in these cases. A lot of the skills do not transfer.

There might be different dangers, and the consequences may be worse but I would disagree that there are more dangers...

Some more examples.

Gravel on the outside or inside of a corner. Doesn't affect most car drivers. Can be very difficult for a motorcycle.

Cars are more visible than motorcycles, simply because of their size. So when your on a motorcycle your more likely to be hit because of this.

If another car runs into you, and comparing the case of you being the driver in the car that gets hit and a rider on a motorbike that gets hit - your probably going to come off worse on a motorcycle.

So I still put forward there are more dangers that are motorcycle specific, and that being able to drive a car does not mean you will be aware of these dangers when you start to ride a motorcycle.

Yep, maybe. I wonder though, how many of the Average/Below average drivers are becoming motorcyclists. I woulda thunk that the ones who cause us the most grief. Ie the ones who are essentially asleep while driving (or distracted drinking coffee while clipping their toenails and plugging in the iPod at the same time) are probably not going to give up their luxury motoring for smelly, cold, dirty dangerous motorcycle.

...Maybe it all comes back to better training and, just as importantly, assessing skill on an individual basis in real world conditions rather than a one size fits all.

I don't consider myself to be a good car driver. In particular, I would like to improve my machine control abilities. Had a look around a while ago, but couldn't really find any car control courses around for road use. And while I can practise things like emergency braking on my motorcycle down my street, cars practising the same thing tend to get "attention" as undesirable.

Anyway I became a rider.

But as for how many below/above average drivers that get into motorcycling - hard to answer that question.

[dipshit]

"I'd bet over 80 per cent of the accidents involving motorcycles were caused by a car or truck driver, or something else with a roof."

Sounds like Mr Thompson needs to get a fucking clue.

Before I even opened that link - I thought I bet that line or something like it will be in there.

Where do we get these clueless idiots from...???

[Luckylegs]

An examples. Cars can't vary there position greatly in most lanes, especially while cornering. Motorcycles are much narrower and can. So straight away you have a choice of lane position on a bike that doesn't exist in a car.

Another example. Throttle control in a car while cornering is not so crucial. In an automatic you have even less control.
On a motorcycle good throttle control while cornering improves your stability on the bike, and how tight you can make your cornering line (or rather, affects your ability to vary the corner line and make it tighter).

Another example. Car drivers don't need to plan out cornering lines in advance. Most times a car can simply come up to a corner, set their entry speed, and their done.
When your on a motorcycle, especially if there are two or more corners in a row, you really need to be looking ahead to plan out where you want to be on each corner (entry, during and exit).

There are lots of examples like this. The "average" car driving skills will not help someone on a motorcycle in these cases. A lot of the skills do not transfer.




Some more examples.

Gravel on the outside or inside of a corner. Doesn't affect most car drivers. Can be very difficult for a motorcycle.

Cars are more visible than motorcycles, simply because of their size. So when your on a motorcycle your more likely to be hit because of this.

If another car runs into you, and comparing the case of you being the driver in the car that gets hit and a rider on a motorbike that gets hit - your probably going to come off worse on a motorcycle.

So I still put forward there are more dangers that are motorcycle specific, and that being able to drive a car does not mean you will be aware of these dangers when you start to ride a motorcycle.



I don't consider myself to be a good car driver. In particular, I would like to improve my machine control abilities. Had a look around a while ago, but couldn't really find any car control courses around for road use. And while I can practise things like emergency braking on my motorcycle down my street, cars practising the same thing tend to get "attention" as undesirable.

Anyway I became a rider.

But as for how many below/above average drivers that get into motorcycling - hard to answer that question.

Cool I'll just agree to disagree and move on to something far more important like a waving thread.

[BMWST?]

Changing the give way rule will mean less NZ's get hurt on the road. It's easy to see why.

tell me why.What is illogical about the left turning car giving way to the vehicle coming from the right(like the rest of the give way rule is based on?And to make it even more confusing there will be a different rule where you dont give way to your right in an uncontrolled situation because you are on the through road.
I can see why that will work