Interesting. A mystery explained. 'twas counter steering all the time.

[vifferman]

Interesting stuff. It took me a while to get used to right hand cornering when I learned to ride, and I still have more dodgy right hand cornering than left. I know a girl who has been riding now for a couple of years who refuses to turn right because it freaks her out. She will plan a route from A to B with only left handers - even if it means going out of her way to do so. If she goes on rides that take her out of her comfort zone - she goes as a pillion. Many have tried to help, but failed.

There is possibly another aspect to this.
When doing left-hand corners, you're closer to 'safety' (the verge / footpath / grass, whatever). When you lean, you're leaning away from the traffic. However, on right-hand corners, you're headed towards any oncoming traffic, and you're also leaning your head in towards the vehicles.

I'd never really thoguht about this, until the second or third time I took my wife on the back on the highway, and she asked me to keep further to the left on right-hand corners, as the proximity to oncoming cars was freaking her out!

[avgas]

For me left handers are easy, for practical reasons (Pin is in right tibia ). No but seriously,i have good reason too.
a) foot brake is on the right, so if im leaning in the corner, and i have to apply rear brake.......fear of brake diggin into ground and throwing bike down the road.
b) anyone dropped a bike, and have the exhaust hit you leg
c) rather then overshoot corners, i have a nasty habit of getting to close to the coner, left hand road, no on comming traffic etc

also.....even though we prefer left handers.... and we swear we take more left hand turns then right - anyone else notice that the tire wears evenly on all parts?

[chickenfunkstar]

That makes a heap of sense when I think about it.
The corners I dislike the most are downhill right handers.
I quite like uphill right handers where the palm of my hand is pointing 'fowards'

I'm usually more confident through left handers, particularly when I can see through the whole corner.

Before reading this, I always put it down to some silly psycological thing about being closer to the edge of the road when taking a left hander.
I.e. I could run wide if i really needed to (never have done, apart from when once I was a noob)

[justsomeguy]

- anyone else notice that the tire wears evenly on all parts?

Hmmm... I wondered how that happened..........

[TwoSeven]

Well, i'd like to agree with the original post as it does sound 'logical' but personally its a case of effect without a related cause.

I'm ambidextrous - I have no preference for corners except that here I like right hand ones and in the middle east I liked left hand corners. I also very seldom ride with both hands on the bars - normally steering by pushing the bar away with the palm of my hand (open face forward palm)

Why - well looking that the profile on my tires shows the right side is twice as worn on left sides (thats the camber effect on me commuting down the same streets every day). 75% of the corners I make every day are right hand corners and 99% of the road is right-camber which would also indicate more wear on one side than the other.

Tire wear doesnt actually have to be visible for it to have an effect. Just a change in the amount of oil in one side will make a difference.

[vifferman]

also.....even though we prefer left handers.... and we swear we take more left hand turns then right - anyone else notice that the tire wears evenly on all parts?

Um, no.
It's quite common for them to wear more on the right, due, I guess, to the road's camber. I pointed this out to a tyre technician once, and he agreed (that tyres often have more wear on the right). If they are worn evenly, then that's probably an offset between the 'camber thing' and the 'left-hand turn preference thing'. (Then there's the "flat in the middle and thoroughly squared-off' thing, but that's another topic. My tyres are generally more worn on the edges than the middle, due to taking the 'tourist route' as much as possible when commuting. This also is responsible for high drivetrain wear...)

[awd]

Damn, this will make me think about what I am doing when I ride now, instead of just letting the old cerebellum take care of all the physics. I actually prefer right handers, irrespective of which side of the road I'm riding on. I always thought it was because I am left handed, but maybe there is another explanation to this.

Also, I always put the preference for uphill corners over downhill corners to the fact that you are on a leading throttle instead of a trailing throttle. Changes the dynamics of the bike and its handling traits, as we all know.

Have to engage the brain to find the answer.

[Ixion]

Damn, this will make me think about what I am doing when I ride now, instead of just letting the old cerebellum take care of all the physics...

Yeah , you gotta watch it doing that. Couple of times while I was working all that out, I nearly ran right off the road. Thinking "hm, what's actually happening here. Interesting. So this , hm , and that , most interesting - uh what was I doing .. OH FARK THE BLOODY CORNER . I FORGOT ABOUT THAT ! "

It's amazing that one can actually forget that one is half way through negotiating a corner. But I did.

Also amazing how far a BMW can be banked over if you really have to !

[HDTboy]

I agree with the original post and with SaSlex's post, I'd been thinking along similar lines

[John]

Good point, I often feel unsettled in right handers - there is one very sharp turn I need to take at speed (90*) and if I take it from the left I love it it feels great, but on the right I always loose the front end, I even have pictures of the tire edge where its broken traction and slid under causing tearing - I always manage to pull the front end back in though, most probably because of the bike being so light, I totally agree - I was playing around with what you exactly said and yup true as buggery!

[vifferman]

Damn, this will make me think about what I am doing when I ride now, instead of just letting the old cerebellum take care of all the physics. I actually prefer right handers, irrespective of which side of the road I'm riding on. I always thought it was because I am left handed, but maybe there is another explanation to this.

Ooh - I just thought of another thing - many right-handers, especially around town, are cambered the wrong way, which makes cornering potentially more tricky.

Also, I always put the preference for uphill corners over downhill corners to the fact that you are on a leading throttle instead of a trailing throttle. Changes the dynamics of the bike and its handling traits, as we all know.

Yeah, and downhills mean that the bike is tending to run on a bit, making the natural tendency to be wanting to slow it down.
I'm sure the preference is more a psychological thing than a physical thing, but it's complicated, because you need to look at weight distribution, steeering dynamics, perceptions, all sorts of stuff.

Have to engage the brain to find the answer.

Too hard.

Incidentally, while we need to think about stuff, particularly when learning, it's actually counter-productive in a way, as we're at our best when we've trained ourselves to ride so that it can be done without too much thought, and are using the right hemisphere of our brains. That 'zoned' feeling we get when we corner "just right" is the right hemisphere in control. It's the same feeling you get when doing other sports, like carving some perfect turns on the ski slopes. It's the same sort of thing when you've learned a musical piece and don't have to consciously think about the notes to play, they just flow. And when you do think about it, you fumble and it all becomes less fluid.

That's part of the reason newbies have trouble - the responses aren't yet automatic, and so they're having to think their way around corners. The rational (left) part of their brain is saying "Too fast! Brake!" and telling them to look at that thing they'll hit if they don't do something quickly.
Once you've learned the feel of the bike, to look through the corner, don't target fixate, get your lines sorted, do you braking before the corner, etc. etc., you're free to think about the road ahead, the next set of corners, what's for lunch, that sort of thing.

[Ixion]

a point, the bars are joined together are they not? so a push on the right is the same as a pull on the left?! so to increase the ease of rights give the left bar a tug/careful pull.

Another way is to take your left hand out of the situation and ride with just your right for a bit to get used to some pulling and pushing.

yeah, I think you're right, logically anyway.

See, thing is though, all this is totally instinctive. Until I really focused on it I didn't even realise I was countersteering

It's not the initial set up for the corner, which one tends to think about a bit more, it's the subtle adjustments through the corner.

And they are quite instinctive.

And for some reason, for me anyway, pulling the left bar to increase tightness in a right hand corner just doesn't seem instinctive. Instinctively, my mind says that is going to stand the bike up.

Which isn't to say that one cannot train oneself to do it.

Or perhaps the answer is to accept changing the grip on the twistgrip.

Incidentaly I guess this is one reaosn why racers want a forearm parallel to ground riding position.

[Ixion]

..
Incidentally, while we need to think about stuff, particularly when learning, it's actually counter-productive in a way, as we're at our best when we've trained ourselves to ride so that it can be done without too much thought, and are using the right hemisphere of our brains. That 'zoned' feeling we get when we corner "just right" is the right hemisphere in control. It's the same feeling you get when doing other sports, like carving some perfect turns on the ski slopes. It's the same sort of thing when you've learned a musical piece and don't have to consciously think about the notes to play, they just flow. And when you do think about it, you fumble and it all becomes less fluid.

..

True. Very true. But, over the years one can actually acquire habits that are maybe not bad but are not the best. And train oneself to ride in a fashion that is OK, but not the best possible.

And one then needs to sort out what one is actually doing, so as to UNTRAIN ones brain, to allow it to be RETRAINED in a better way.

Unless one is a Surtees or a Hailwood or a Miller I guess. Then it's trained correctly from the word go.

Incidentally do other folk have the same thing I do. That if I mess things up on one corner and have to scratch round, I'm totally useless for quite a while after that. Seem to drop out of the zone so to speak and can't get back into it.

I've found the best thing is to stop and have a rest. Then often it all sorts itself out again on restarting.

[John]

Incidentally do other folk have the same thing I do. That if I mess things up on one corner and have to scratch round, I'm totally useless for quite a while after that. Seem to drop out of the zone so to speak and can't get back into it.

I've found the best thing is to stop and have a rest. Then often it all sorts itself out again on restarting.

Think we all do - its called spilling a load in the pants
But yea I get that but its mainly when I just about hit a car, then I fall off the pace for the rest of the day, I normally just go home before I funk it up again - its all mental training I just havent got my controll at bay yet..

[NhuanH]

I know a girl who has been riding now for a couple of years who refuses to turn right because it freaks her out. She will plan a route from A to B with only left handers - even if it means going out of her way to do so. If she goes on rides that take her out of her comfort zone - she goes as a pillion. Many have tried to help, but failed.

dat sheet is whack!