Legality of speed camera position?

[tigertim20]

ok, Ill try to make this breif. A friend bought a new bike today from a place north of here. Him and another guy go up in the car (he intends to ride new bike hoe of course), and i follow on the bike, planning to ride home with him. we get there, the guy in the car heads off home ahead of us, no problems.

On the way home, heading up a looooong steep hill going south towards dunedin, where there is a passing lane that goes for a couple of kays in length the whole way up the hill.
As we are heading Up the hill, about halfway up (passing lanes remember) we notce a speed camera. all good, carry on.

when we got home, the guy who went home early in the car says he got flashed by the camera. bugger.

I have two questions,
firstly, is there any legality of where you can cant put a speed camera?, this camera was about half way up a 2k long, uphill passing lane. is this considered a fair place to put it?

secondly, what happens if there is more than one vehicle in the picture?

Before anyone flames me, No, i dont think he plans to try get off the ticket if he gets issued one. the car is a gutless wee thng, and wouldnt be capable of doing more than about 10km over the limit on that stretch of uphill anyway, so he'll just pay it, it just ade me wonder.
first time Ive seen a speed camera in a passing lane.

[Berries]

Was this in the Merton rest area ? Quite common to see the van parked in there so am always on the lookout when I go past. I have heard that if there are two uphill vehicles in shot they can't identify the speeding vehicle but haven't tested it to see if it is true. That is one of the original sites that used to have the signs, so the fact it was in a passing lane would have been discussed when it was initially approved.

I have noticed over the last few weeks that the camera van is now being used on both sides of the Fairfield bypass. There have to be some safety issues with it parking alongside a motorway, even on the diverge at one of the off ramps. Luckily it is so bloody obvious if you get a ticket you deserve it. Unlike Merton which is hidden until you are right on top of it.

[Virago]

Sounds like the big climb up the "Northern Motorway" to me, by the description of the length of passing lane.

Sadly, they can position speed cameras anywhere they believe motorists are speeding, and this includes passing lanes. Indeed, the fixed camera on Caversham Valley Road in Dunedin was (and may still be) the most prolific in NZ, and that's on a passing lane.

The cameras can be calibrated for multiple lanes, and the photo will be automatically tagged with the relevant details of what lane the offending vehicle is in, and the direction of travel. I've got several photos to confirm it...

Between Mutley and myself, we've had several speed camera tickets on the multi-lane section of Stuart St. Mutley even managed to get two within 10 minutes at one stage...

[pete376403]

I can understand fixed cameras being able to differentiate between lanes, as they are using sensing strips in the road surface, but mobile cameras, don' t they use radar? No way that's going to be able to pick between lanes.

[meteor]

I got one from a camera van too on a passing lane (112k) just passing a large truck & trailer then slowed and popped back into the left lane. See loads of vans on the m/way and the cops with lasers sitting on downhill inclines. So what about road safety then? Wouldn't crash stats tell them where to patrol? Yeah they get some speeders but really, is that the best use of their resources?

[nadroj]

I can understand fixed cameras being able to differentiate between lanes, as they are using sensing strips in the road surface, but mobile cameras, don' t they use radar? No way that's going to be able to pick between lanes.

Distance of returned signal - one lane is further away than the other.......doh.

[pzkpfw]

This is just a guide I guess, but confirms what I read before:

http://www.police.govt.nz/resources/...ide/index.html

•When speed camera enforcement is taking place in the area of passing lanes, vehicles should not be targeted within 250 (two hundred and fifty) metres of the finish of any passing lane.

I would have thought the idea of this was that people might sometimes be a bit over the limit because they just passed someone, and it would be "unjust" (or rather, upset too many voters) to nick them. I would then have thought this meant it would also apply to people while on the passing lanes themselves.

But then, this is a guide not a law. So they can probably do whatever they want.

Edit: Seems a common kind of question: http://www.aa.co.nz/motoring/tips/as...placement.aspx

[marty]

In the unlikely event there is 2 vehicles 'approaching', then a ticket won't even be issued. The offending vehicle is identified by a 'to' or 'from' tag as the radar knows if it is receiving an increasing or decreasing signal.

I knew that anyway, but I just had the argument with the camera office for shits and giggles ......

[breakaway]

Speed cameras are not about saftey, they are simply about revenue. Think about it - everyone is speeding until they spot the camera and drop anchor, a few get flashed.

[davereid]

Distance of returned signal - one lane is further away than the other.......doh.

Speed cameras using radar, cant tell distance to target.

In fact they dont really know direction, or height either.

They can tell if the vehicle is approaching or travelling away from the radar.

They also use a beam angled across the road. This means they must be parked exactly parallel to the path of the vehicle they are tracking, or cosine errors will inflate (or reduce) the observed speed of the target.

[tigertim20]

Sadly, they can position speed cameras anywhere they believe motorists are speeding, and this includes passing lanes. Indeed, the fixed camera on Caversham Valley Road in Dunedin was (and may still be) the most prolific in NZ, and that's on a passing lane.
true, Id forgotten about that one!! theres also one on the downside, heading south as you get into the 100km area on the right hand side on a pole hidden in the trees, also two lanes each direction. hmmmmThe cameras can be calibrated for multiple lanes, and the photo will be automatically tagged with the relevant details of what lane the offending vehicle is in, and the direction of travel. I've got several photos to confirm it...
lol!
Between Mutley and myself, we've had several speed camera tickets on the multi-lane section of Stuart St. Mutley even managed to get two within 10 minutes at one stage... double lol!

I can understand fixed cameras being able to differentiate between lanes, as they are using sensing strips in the road surface, but mobile cameras, don' t they use radar? No way that's going to be able to pick between lanes.

hmm, good point, anyone?

Speed cameras are not about saftey, they are simply about revenue. Think about it - everyone is speeding until they spot the camera and drop anchor, a few get flashed.

true that. fine issued, no concern about even trying to issue demerits, all about the money.

he doesnt care, he is just going to pay it I think, just thought Id ask as it made e wonder!! now I know thats a common area, ill have to be carefull when heading down that hill. not to worry bout the uphill on the bike though!

[Max Preload]

I have two questions,
firstly, is there any legality of where you can cant put a speed camera?, this camera was about half way up a 2k long, uphill passing lane. is this considered a fair place to put it?

They can put them anywhere. When they were introduced we were told they would only be used in 'accident blackspots'. Yeah, right. I don't think anyone with more than half a brain actually believed that though. And no, it's certainly not fair, because the opportunity to pass the dodery old cunt in the hat who was driving at 75km/h before the passing lane, where he immediately sped up to 100km/h, without crossing the centreline comes up so rarely on NZ roads it should be taken with much gusto so as to provide as much opportunity for those following you in the mile-long queue to also pass.

secondly, what happens if there is more than one vehicle in the picture?

That's 3 questions. But if there are 2 vehicles in the same picture from a mobile camera and both vehicles are travelling in the same direction you have grounds to contest a ticket if it's issued as microwave cannot determine where a return signal came from.

Before anyone flames me, No, i dont think he plans to try get off the ticket if he gets issued one. the car is a gutless wee thng, and wouldnt be capable of doing more than about 10km over the limit on that stretch of uphill anyway, so he'll just pay it, it just made me wonder.
first time Ive seen a speed camera in a passing lane.

They're in passing lanes all the time. He should contest it - it's mean spirited and contrary to the stated objective of 'road safety' because if you don't pass in passing lanes then you have to cross the centreline, which is inherently more dangerous than exceeding an arbitrary posted speed limit by 20km/h while staying left of the centreline.

[Max Preload]

In fact they dont really know direction, or height either.

Well they don't know exact direction (north etc), but they know relative direction (towards or away from the camera microwave) but not true direction.

They've been using one at elevation on the northbound side on the southern motorway at Bairds Road. There's a short uphill driveway that I think services a cell tower that's been utilised as a stealthy position.

[Berries]

They can put them anywhere. When they were introduced we were told they would only be used in 'accident blackspots'. Yeah, right. I don't think anyone with more than half a brain actually believed that though.

When they first went in the sites were selected on the basis of crashes, at least the ones I am aware of down south. That is why signs went up, to let you know that the area did have a crash history and may have a speed camera in it. As soon as the signs were removed that was lost, although new sites still had to be agreed between a group of people, including the AA, and crashes remained a focus. That has now been lost and cameras are appearing where there is little to no crash history but high speeds are recorded.

You can look at that two ways. Not knowing where the cameras are means you might reduce your speed overall and travel within the speed limit, something the authorities will say has happened. Alternatively, you could say it is purely revenue gathering, which is backed up by the fact that for years there have been no demerits given to speed camera tickets, which clearly would have a greater impact on someones behaviour than just a fine.

[ukusa]

I've been in a passing lane behind a ute doing 95 with a cop (dog van) behind me. I didn't overtake for the fear of getting ticketed for maybe doing 111 kph overtaking (as my speedo won't be 100% accurate). BUT, the cop pulled out & passed both of us, and judging by the speed he went past he was going faster than 110. I then overtook as well & settled back down to 105ish. The cop was still steadily increasing his distance in front.
Passing lanes should be able to be used for overtaking. Doing it slowly so as not to go over 100 is not realistic, especially due to the fact that most arseholes that drive at 80 - 90 seem to speed up to 100 - 105 on the passing lanes, then slow down again. Dishing out tickets on passing lanes is simply revenue gathering.
When a Truck is holding up 10 - 15 cars, what's the point of an overtaking lane if through fear of a ticket, only one car gets past the truck on that passing lane?