Police saving our lives again

[Scuba_Steve]

you can guarantee that an unlimited open road would see an immediate multiplying of the accident and death rate. You've got your head in the clouds because YOU want to speed. Have you considered a track day?

Facts disagree with you here
Autobahn one of the fastest roads in the world also one with lest fatalities.

Northern Territory Up until 2007, rural roads in the Northern Territory, Australia had no speed limit. Claiming that speed limits were essential to saving lives, the state government imposed a 130km/h (80 MPH) limit on the Stuart, Arnhem, Victoria and Barkly highways and a 110km/h (68 MPH) speed limit on all other roads, unless otherwise marked lower. Despite the best of intentions, however, the number of road deaths actually increased 70 percent after the change -- despite worldwide drop in traffic levels

some from NZ - In the early 1970s, as a result of the 1973 oil shock, both New Zealand and the United States imposed new, lower speed limits in an effort to save fuel. In New Zealand’s case the limit dropped from 60 mph (100ks) to 50mph (80ks), while in the US it dropped to 55 mph - the so-called "double nickel".
In the ten years leading up to the drop in the New Zealand speed limit, an average of 608 New Zealanders had died on the roads each year.
In the ten years that followed the drop from 100 kph down to 80 kph, an average of 707 New Zealanders died on the roads each year: in other words, the new, lower New Zealand speed limit coincided with a 17% increase in road deaths.
For the ten years that our maximum speed limit was only 80 kilometres per hour, an average of 3.75 New Zealanders were killed each year for every ten thousand cars on the road.
For the ten years after that, when the speed limit increased to 100 kph, the average number of deaths dropped by 12%, to just 3.27 deaths per 10,000 vehicles.
The ratio of people injured per 10,000 vehicles tells a similar story: during the low speed era, an average of 100.6 injuries. During the high speed era that followed: just 80.5. A twenty percent drop in injuries in real terms when cars were allowed to travel faster.
higher speeds contribute to smoother traffic flows and less road rage.

So yes there might be a spike when open roads 1st come in but that would soon subside to lower overall fatalities as it becomes the norm, This happens worldwide NZ fatalities went up when speeds were lowered & down when they were raised again.

[Scuba_Steve]

Shit, a lot of people can't decide if they want 'fries with that' let alone something as critical as what IS a safe speed for the conditions, hell even WITH a speed limit they seem to crash willy-nilly....

maybee they still have respect for the law & just following the example set

About 100 police cars have been written off in the past five years at a cost of more than $3 million.
The number of crashes involving police cars has grown steadily but those damaged during high-speed chases have dropped dramatically.

In 2004 there were 438 crashes, which jumped to 604 in 2005 after reporting processes were improved.
Crash numbers increased to 734 in 2009 – leaving officers with injuries ranging from sprains to burns and broken bones.
But crashes during pursuits – which peaked at 177 in 2007 and then dropped to 129 in 2008 – were down to 61 by December.

[tamarillo]

So instead of us all moaning to eachother lets start doing something. try lots and lost of letters to editors - not ranting and raving as that will be dismissed. heres mine:
National road policing manager Superintendent Paula Rose says ‘We may have lost this battle to stop people dying needlessly on the roads but the war will continue’. Does she not realise she is alienating the people she is supposed to work for and this obsessive fixation with speed is not working?
They are not attacking bad driving and poor decisions and, I believe, are making these real causes of fatality worse. Here how: in Management 101 one learns that in order to expect people to feel responsible and to accept accountability one must first delegate some authority and allow individuals some power to make some decisions.
What our police are doing here is treating us as mindless sheep in contrast to countries in Europe I have driven where they are interested in truly dangerous excessive speed, bad driving, illegal lane changing and passing etc. No one can convince me a cop hiding in trees, at bottom of a hill, early in the morning on a deserted South Island road is helping the road toll.
Tim

[Patrick]

Alcohol? People ignoring the speed limit? Unfortunately TPTB have decided to focus on the message that road crashes are primarily caused by speed and alcohol to the detriment of road safety because they don't seem to worry about anything else. This focus is because it's easy to measure and police speed and alcohol, whereas driver inattention, tiredness, tail gating and all the other causes of road crashes are hard to police.

Yep... put a cop car in the area and all are on their best behaviour and the tiredness disappears.

well I have done nearly 600ks this weekend in the car and on the bike and I havn't seen any cops yet so i guess i didn't get a speeding ticket like I thought I would. So much for a bigger police presence. Not in the eastern bay anyway

The western side was crawling with them. And no fatals either.... Hmmmm....

The last time they did the 4k limit thing and puffed their chests out damming all speeding motorists and hailing their strategy as a great success it was Queens birthday and the weekend was a washout weather wise.

Who was - "they..."? Crap weather usually results in wipeouts - even more so on holiday weekends, regardless.

This weekend the weather is fantastic and we have death on the roads.

Maybe its got something to do with the state of the roads and the amount of people using them!

State of the roads - hell yeah, I reckon. The amount using? Nah.

Perhaps if they invested the income from traffic fines into subsidising a descent tar seal surface instead of the crap chip seal they use that melts as soon as the sun comes out and dissolves when it rains it may help reduce actual accidents related to loss of control (working on the theory of more grip = more control)

Check out the Aussie highways - thick concrete = long lasting and no repair needed. That Hume Highway is brilliant. Dual carriage way with a massive median, no headons because of the separation between the opposing lanes - unlike a white painted line barrier (yellow sometimes...) that we have here.

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-sto...ith-road-toll/

They think the 104km limits is working, because there have been fewer crashes.

How do you explain it then?

Just one aspect was targetted - and a 25% drop?

nope but Im always interested in the excuses the cops come up with so they can continue to make $$$ at the expense of lives

Jeez - is there a commission? I thought it went elsewhere. Like paying dole bludgers and druggies too fried to work (A.K.A. Sickness and Invalids Benefits...)

Don't mind the slightest, paying for those who are really actually too sick/injured to work though....

I would say speed scams cause accidents as they force people to look at an insignificant needle on an insignificant dial instead of the road ...

For all those who need to constantly watch the insignificant needle, hand in your licenses now. You are a menace to others who have mastered the art of driving AND taking a split second glimpse now and then...

Hey........... isn't that multi tasking? Woo hoo....

...... speed scams have NEVER been clearly shown to decrease road tolls in-fact there is just as much evidence to suggest they increase the road toll, but there is plenty of evidence to show they increase accidents ....

A 25% reduction in crashes not clear enough?

Show us your evidence then..... and not the overseas stuff, where the roads are far superior, the driving skill is more advanced - make it NZ based..... with crap drivers and even crappier roads....

Would you not rather see the cops doing something about these child abuse cases, the P "epidemic" etc. rather than making another $38mil for the Govt??? I know I would

Hell yeah. Yay. Another convert. If only everyone else can stop speeding everywhere, look before turning and drive like their lives depended on it, (like many motorbike riders - not all, but the vast majority...) then we can get on with all the other stuff.....

[Edbear]

Perhaps if we could see the full story behind the fatalities it would help? Okay we are told that "speed and alcohol" or "driver inattention" or "mechanical failure" was a contributory factor, but, couold we be told the complete story? I know the SCU was very thorough in its investigation into my accident. They knew I'd just renewed the WoF, that the Road User and Rego was up to date, that the tyres and overall mechanical condition of the vehicle was fine and they interviewed many witnesses to see if there was anything in the way I was driving that may have contributed.

Their conclusion was that there had been oil on the road and that there was nothing I could have been doing differently to avoid the spin and therefore did not charge me with anything like careless driving.

Statistics that should be available to the Authorities for analysis should be such as age, gender, ethnicity, residency status, type and condition of vehicle, road, weather and traffic conditions at the time, physical condition of the driver, and so on.

I know the Police are more interested in driver ability and driving according to the conditions, vehicle state, etc. than is publicly portrayed and I'm sure the cops on here would agree they have pulled over morons for driving like morons regardless of speed. But the fact is that it is harder to Police driver inattention, unroadworthy vehicles and unlicenced drivers/drivers outside their licence conditions, and not so easy to give stats.

Some of us would be very safe to drive/ride well over the speed limit with the self-control to drive appropriately in traffic and road/weather conditions, but who's going to judge whether you are? The speed limit has to be arbitrary, as you simply cannot have more than one limit on the same road for different drivers, and I seriously doubt whether making the open road limit "open" will save lives...

[Ocean1]

I seriously doubt whether making the open road limit "open" will save lives...

You're an old cunt aincha? Don't you remember the LSZ signs around the countryside? Well the road toll was lower when we had 'em, it's that simple.

And all the doubt you can marshal won't make a jot of difference to the facts here either.

Now run along and annoy your mother.

[Edbear]

You're an old cunt aincha? Don't you remember the LSZ signs around the countryside? Well the road toll was lower when we had 'em, it's that simple.

And all the doubt you can marshal won't make a jot of difference to the facts here either.

Now run along and annoy your mother.

My Mummy wuvs me...

[miloking]

What? They are wondering if they should make the 4km/h tolerance permanent????


Because it worked soooo well this weekend....

and here comes their excuse no.1 "the crashes were reduced overall" ...without any interest in finding actual reasons for reduced crashed rate. yet most of those "reduced" crashes were minor and would have nothing to do with speed in a first place, at most with inattention....
Its only the fatal and serious crashes the likely have something to do with speed amongst other things that didnt reduce at all...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...r-police-Joyce

[scumdog]

You're an old cunt aincha? Don't you remember the LSZ signs around the countryside? Well the road toll was lower when we had 'em, it's that simple.

And all the doubt you can marshal won't make a jot of difference to the facts here either.

Now run along and annoy your mother.

The car and people population was lower then too don't forget.

[scumdog]

What? They are wondering if they should make the 4km/h tolerance permanent????


Because it worked soooo well this weekend....

and here comes their excuse no.1 "the crashes were reduced overall" ...without any interest in finding actual reasons for reduced crashed rate. yet most of those "reduced" crashes were minor and would have nothing to do with speed in a first place, at most with inattention....
Its only the fatal and serious crashes the likely have something to do with speed amongst other things that didnt reduce at all...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...r-police-Joyce

Waa waaa waa fucking waaa...the squaky wheel doesn't ALWAYS get the oil...

[Edbear]

The car and people population was lower then too don't forget.

And the vast majority of drivers were genuine Kiwi's who knew how to drive. These days we've got people from anywhere and everywhere with no clue how to operate a motor vehicle and tens of thousands more, (and more powerful), vehicles on the road. Coupled with an attitude of complete disrespect for authority and the lives and property of others and what do you expect?

I contend that the reason the German autobahn is so safe, is the way you get your licence over there. Imagine the outcry if the NZ Gummint brought the German licence and the German punitive system in here..!

[Ocean1]

The car and people population was lower then too don't forget.

Yeah, but at least one of the population was me, and that makes up for it.

And the vast majority of drivers were genuine Kiwi's who knew how to drive.

And shoot, and dig a dunny. And more to the point prized their cars 'cause they bought them with cold hard paycheck money and any damage meant hours in the shed fixin' the old bugger.

I contend that the reason the German autobahn is so safe, is the way you get your licence over there.

Utter bollox. There's no prangs 'cause there's no fucking intersections and no opposing traffic. Ever. Christ even I'd have trouble killing myself there.


Fookin' licences, forsooth.

[Marmoot]

If Police presence lowers the road toll by reducing tiredness and stupidity

And the fact says increasing speed (e.g., from 80kph to 100kph) reduces the road toll

Then obviously if we want 0 road fatality, we should have roads with unlimited speed and lined with police cars.

[ukusa]

What? They are wondering if they should make the 4km/h tolerance permanent????


Because it worked soooo well this weekend....

and here comes their excuse no.1 "the crashes were reduced overall" ...without any interest in finding actual reasons for reduced crashed rate. yet most of those "reduced" crashes were minor and would have nothing to do with speed in a first place, at most with inattention....
Its only the fatal and serious crashes the likely have something to do with speed amongst other things that didnt reduce at all...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...r-police-Joyce

The roads were also mostly dry with good visibility, must have helped. What was the weather like last Labour weekend?

[Edbear]

Yeah, but at least one of the population was me, and that makes up for it.

And shoot, and dig a dunny. And more to the point prized their cars 'cause they bought them with cold hard paycheck money and any damage meant hours in the shed fixin' the old bugger.

Utter bollox. There's no prangs 'cause there's no fucking intersections and no opposing traffic. Ever. Christ even I'd have trouble killing myself there.

Fookin' licences, forsooth.

I dunno, I reckon most current drivers on NZ roads would be very capable of having an accident on the Autobahn...

Having said that, too, my son-in-law who spent most of his life in Germany managed to total his car at 240km/h on it...

Back in the day, we generaly learned to drive on gravel roads and learned braking and skid control, too. We drove Hillman Minx's and Morris Minor's or if we were better off, Ford V8's and Vauxhall's and Holden's with drum brakes and roly-poly suspension. 100km'h was VERY FAST! We rode BSA's and AJS/Matchlesses and skited about doing 70mph! (115km/h for you youngsters).