Police saving our lives again

[doc]

The car and people population was lower then too don't forget.

But but.... the cars are safer now. Those days you needed a bus to transport those that survived the impact.

[Jonno.]

There was 1 less death; a reduced speed limit didn't work period. Time to stop pretending going over the speed limit causes most accidents. It's misleading to label deaths being attributed to speed because speed doesn't mean over the speedlimit.

[oldrider]

You're an old cunt aincha? Don't you remember the LSZ signs around the countryside? Well the road toll was lower when we had 'em, it's that simple.

And all the doubt you can marshal won't make a jot of difference to the facts here either.

Now run along and annoy your mother.

Well I am an even older one and I well remember the LSZ signs and they were far more respected than the replacement arbitrary speed limit signs!

I believe that open speed limits areas and more personal responsibility will work if training and preparation for them is carried out before implementation.

The laws need to be simplified and/or reduced and the emphasis on punishment for breaking them focussed onto those that break them, rather than those that obey and respect them.

Police need to be empowered to make on the spot decisions and backed to the hilt by "lawyers and Judges" when they get it right and shit kicked out of them when they get it wrong but only when they get it wrong!

Above all the police should be supported by the general public unless they clearly get it wrong and have it proved before they (public) unleash their fury and outrage!

I.E. help the police win back public respect!

More personal contribution, more personal accountability, more personal freedom for those that get it right, more personal consequences for those that get it wrong and our roads will become a much safer place to be! IMHO!

[Brian d marge]

There was 1 less death; a reduced speed limit didn't work period. Time to stop pretending going over the speed limit causes most accidents. It's misleading to label deaths being attributed to speed because speed doesn't mean over the speedlimit.

you know I was thinking the same thing today, most if not all of the accidents this weekend were down to speed, not over the speed limit , just too fast for the time and place and when we drink out goes the ability to make a half decent judgement call on said speed and conditions

driver training again , not 4kmph limits

Stephen

[red mermaid]

LSZ signs were not respected and they were taken away because the public did not understand them.

Even if they did manage to remember any of the 5 conditions that meant the lower speed limit applied they would argue long and hard that it was not bad enough for those conditions to come into play

Well I am an even older one and I well remember the LSZ signs and they were far more respected than the replacement arbitrary speed limit signs!

I believe that open speed limits areas and more personal responsibility will work if training and preparation for them is carried out before implementation.

The laws need to be simplified and/or reduced and the emphasis on punishment for breaking them focussed onto those that break them, rather than those that obey and respect them.

Police need to be empowered to make on the spot decisions and backed to the hilt by "lawyers and Judges" when they get it right and shit kicked out of them when they get it wrong but only when they get it wrong!

Above all the police should be supported by the general public unless they clearly get it wrong and have it proved before they (public) unleash their fury and outrage!

I.E. help the police win back public respect!

More personal contribution, more personal accountability, more personal freedom for those that get it right, more personal consequences for those that get it wrong and our roads will become a much safer place to be! IMHO!

[Pixie]

There was 1 less death; a reduced speed limit didn't work period. Time to stop pretending going over the speed limit causes most accidents. It's misleading to label deaths being attributed to speed because speed doesn't mean over the speedlimit.

Wake up!

Training and education costs.

Enforcing bullshit excuses such as "speed kills" brings in revenue and votes

[Pixie]

And the vast majority of drivers were genuine Kiwi's who knew how to drive. These days we've got people from anywhere and everywhere with no clue how to operate a motor vehicle and tens of thousands more, (and more powerful), vehicles on the road. Coupled with an attitude of complete disrespect for authority and the lives and property of others and what do you expect?

I contend that the reason the German autobahn is so safe, is the way you get your licence over there. Imagine the outcry if the NZ Gummint brought the German licence and the German punitive system in here..!

Not to mention the outcry from the breakfast cereal manufacturers - who'll by the stuff if you don't get a free licence in the box any more?

[Pixie]

......a descent tar seal surface instead of the crap chip seal they use that melts as soon as the sun comes out and dissolves when it rains it may help reduce actual accidents related to loss of control (working on the theory of more grip = more control)

Unfortunately it isn't the sun that's to blame.They deliberately use a lower melting point bitumen that is cheap because other countries won't buy it.

Old North Road Kumeu was resealed 3 weeks ago - within one week the bitumen was rising to the surface creating a nice shiny,slick finish.That week was cool and overcast.

[terbang]

Drove down to Hamilton to visit the outlaws.. There were lots of signs telling us that there were more cops out there and yes I saw a couple too. However I saw four speed camera vans as well, so I guess some cops got some fishing in.

The unmarked vans were parked in obscure little spots to trap speedsters. Now I agree, more cops out there over labour weekend being visible and grabbing those that break the law could help reduce the death toll. But a speed camera is felt about three weeks later when the fine turns up in the mail. I guess it will remind us to slow down next labour weekend, but no impact on this one. Though I guess the volume of traffic on labour weekend is just too good of an opportunity to pick up a bit of extra revenue. I call it cop out policing...

The advantage of police on the road is they can also nobble all the tailgaters, crossing the centre line, pissed and stoned drivers who are invisible to the speed cameras.

Anyway, as of this morning it was 8, the same as last year so I guess all that was gained was revenue. Shame really that our regulators and enforcers have got themselves so brainwashed over speed and seem oblivious to the driver training issues, road maintenance issues that our country is so sadly lacking. Or is legislation better for revenue than education?

[oldrider]

LSZ signs were not respected and they were taken away because the public did not understand them.

Even if they did manage to remember any of the 5 conditions that meant the lower speed limit applied they would argue long and hard that it was not bad enough for those conditions to come into play

In other words you reckon they were too "subjective" but I believe the discretion (interpretation) should be with the police to charge them with dangerous driving instead of the original misdemeanour then!

There are plenty of 70kph and 50kph zones that used to be LSZ and could be observed as the conditions of the day changed, it was good too!

I blame the stupid bloody lawyers and Judges for getting that taken away and all they did was line their own pockets while they did it and help with the current disrespect for the police being the way it is!

The police (like that prick in Alexandra) can do that on their own they don't need all the help the law society, Judges and corrections have been giving them!

It's got nothing to do with combining police and traffic, it goes right across the spectrum, politics down, treating law abiding people like children and supporting the criminals like they are saints!

PS: I respected the LSZ signs and zones, so that's one!

[ukusa]

LSZ signs were not respected and they were taken away because the public did not understand them.

Even if they did manage to remember any of the 5 conditions that meant the lower speed limit applied they would argue long and hard that it was not bad enough for those conditions to come into play

Says it all really. Dumb arses who couldn't understand/remember that rule shouldn't have been able to get a licence, after all it was in the road code! As is the right turn rule that is going to get changed, if it was too confusing, how the fuck did so many pass their licence? Who's to blame for that?
Fuck, even my wifes 85yo (at the time) grandfather managed to pass his age driving test on his licence a few years ago. It took him 3 attempts & in the end he got it much to everyones surprise. None of his family were brave enough to even get in the car with him. A couple of minor dings later & they managed to convince him to give up & sell the car.
It's just so fucking easy.

[scracha]

And the vast majority of drivers were genuine Kiwi's who knew how to drive.!

Fuck off, some of the worst drivers on the road are "genuine" Kiwi's who can't ride or drive for shit. It's not their fault.....pathetic licensing system combined with most learning to ride/drive from their dad, no doubt in a paddock.

[Berries]

Time to stop pretending going over the speed limit causes most accidents. It's misleading to label deaths being attributed to speed because speed doesn't mean over the speedlimit.

Bang on. Speed kills. Well, no. Inappropriate speed does and even if you are under the 100km/h speed limit you can still mess yourself up pretty bad. Which is worse ? Those people who do 120 on the straights yet comply with all advisories on the corners, or those who do 104 from A to B and ignore the 65k corners ? The former will get ticketed, but I would suggest that the latter are the road safety problem, and will never be touched until they crash, and by then it is too late as we have seen over the weekend.

I find it pretty galling, but I have to agree with Red Mermaid on this one. Limited Speed Zones were a misunderstood crock of shit, and it is good to be shot of them. "Oh look, there's a cloud, best slow down to 50 Mabel"

[SpeedMonger]

So it's up to YOU (the rider) to decide the safe limit/speed to ride as per everything mentioned in the first paragraph??

Shit, a lot of people can't decide if they want 'fries with that' let alone something as critical as what IS a safe speed for the conditions, hell even WITH a speed limit they seem to crash willy-nilly....

Yep accountability is what it is about, puts the onus on the drivers and the penalties to match the consequences of the outcomes.

Just to experiment, and give the finger to edbear, I rode to work at the speed limit this morning, a 60 km commute on mostly straight rural roads. I got overtaken by every damn vehicle on the road, it was highly disconcerting. Most were travelling at 115 - 120kph ( don't ask how my estimates were achieved but they were accurate).

I would say that if the open road limits were made open ( or significantly higher) most drivers of modern vehicles would be content to travel at that range of speed.

The biggest problem is the pricks that pull out in front of vehicles travelling at open road speed with a total disregard to the approaching traffic in either direction.

[JohnJumper]

Fuck off, some of the worst drivers on the road are "genuine" Kiwi's who can't ride or drive for shit. It's not their fault.....pathetic licensing system combined with most learning to ride/drive from their dad, no doubt in a paddock.

Defintiely, they're usually the ones in denial about their driving ability too