Police saving our lives again

[pzkpfw]

I was once picked up hitch-hiking by a German couple in a campervan.

(Stop reading now, if you think that might lead to an "interesting" story.)

To their great credit, they had a New Zealand road code and were studying it. They were already driving, but still, they were continuing to read.

They (the one not driving) would show me pictures of road signs and get me to confirm what they meant.

For the LSZ sign they asked three times.

The look on their faces would have been the same as if I'd said "it means you have to drive past, in reverse, with an Irish flag on the roof and three dead cats hanging from the bumper".

[Edbear]

Fuck off, some of the worst drivers on the road are "genuine" Kiwi's who can't ride or drive for shit. It's not their fault.....pathetic licensing system combined with most learning to ride/drive from their dad, no doubt in a paddock.

I wasn't talking about today. Back in the 60's and 70's the roads were a different place. These days it's anarchy out there.

We were taught by our parents to drive and we were taught properly. The licences were far easier to get than today as well. We were a different generation with a different attitude to the law, and while many drove drunk and many drove over the speed limit the consequences were less serious due to far less traffic and much lower speeds.

[MSTRS:Me]

I wasn't talking about today. Back in the 60's and 70's the roads were a different place. These days it's anarchy out there.

We were taught by our parents to drive and we were taught properly. The licences were far easier to get than today as well. We were a different generation with a different attitude to the law, and while many drove drunk and many drove over the speed limit the consequences were less serious due to far less traffic and much lower speeds.

Eh, wrong! The driving skills may have been better, but that was offset by conditions inferior to today. Why do you think the death toll averaged 700-800 a year?
Today, conditions have improved, meaning less effort required to drive - which has lead to an easing in the skills of your average driver. Which is why we still have a road toll of some 350 p.a.

[tamarillo]

I wasn't talking about today. Back in the 60's and 70's the roads were a different place. These days it's anarchy out there.

We were taught by our parents to drive and we were taught properly. The licences were far easier to get than today as well. We were a different generation with a different attitude to the law, and while many drove drunk and many drove over the speed limit the consequences were less serious due to far less traffic and much lower speeds.

We were taught to drive properly? Who was? I was not in early 70's and nor was any body I know. It was not training it was a case of learn basic min needed to not be a total arse and hope for the best. I certianly was not taught to ride with anything more than very very basics.

[steve_t]

We were taught to drive properly? Who was? I was not in early 70's and nor was any body I know. It was not training it was a case of learn basic min needed to not be a total arse and hope for the best. I certianly was not taught to ride with anything more than very very basics.

I'm thinking that back in the 60's and 70's that the "far less traffic" part of Edbear's post had the most significance

[Scuba_Steve]

We were taught to drive properly? Who was? I was not in early 70's and nor was any body I know. It was not training it was a case of learn basic min needed to not be a total arse and hope for the best. I certianly was not taught to ride with anything more than very very basics.

A BIG problem of today is the driver training tho (or lack there of). I would consider myself Gen-X I am of a cross-over generation brought up "old skool" way but at the beginning of this fluffy, pussy, PC . No-one gets taught how to drive anymore my driver training was with my dad, just like his b4 etc. & everything was taught the engine didn't even get started before I had full control of the gear system & where the clutch picked up, and any screw up was greeted with a smack round the head (as it should be) these are 1-2 tonne killing machines we drive & I was made fully aware of this fact. But nowadays no-ones parents teach them anymore & smacking people upside the head is illegal. As for driver training they will teach legal driving NOT safe driving

If safety was really of concern heres what ya do.
Ban american style indicators
Ban automatics except for those with disabilities (which does raise a question should they be on the road in the 1st place?)
Ban cruise control
Make the learners license 2-wheels ONLY (learn the road before getting in a killing machine) from then you can move to restricted car which would be as learner car today.
Ban speed scams
Make the open road open speed
ANY deaths caused with a vehicle through stupid actions be regarded as manslaughter.

[Edbear]

Eh, wrong! The driving skills may have been better, but that was offset by conditions inferior to today. Why do you think the death toll averaged 700-800 a year?
Today, conditions have improved, meaning less effort required to drive - which has lead to an easing in the skills of your average driver. Which is why we still have a road toll of some 350 p.a.

We were taught to drive properly? Who was? I was not in early 70's and nor was any body I know. It was not training it was a case of learn basic min needed to not be a total arse and hope for the best. I certianly was not taught to ride with anything more than very very basics.

I take your points and you may be right. It is amazing today that the road toll isn't two or three times higher considering the standard of driving skill we see around us.

I'm thinking that back in the 60's and 70's that the "far less traffic" part of Edbear's post had the most significance

True, having said that though, the above posters make a valid point.

[MSTRS:Me]

I take your points and you may be right. It is amazing today that the road toll isn't two or three times higher considering the standard of driving skill we see around us.

It would be, barring generally safer cars, better medical response and outcomes (you will relate to this one), and less roadside obstacles.

[Edbear]

It would be, barring generally safer cars, better medical response and outcomes (you will relate to this one), and less roadside obstacles.

Ironically, yes! I survived the crash okay, it was in hospital they nearly killed me...

My van was a '93 model, so quite old, but they are a particularly strong vehicle and an air-bag would have been no benefit to me in that crash. The injury was a compression fracture so the only thing that would have saved my back would have been a suspension seat.

[MSTRS:Me]

Ironically, yes! I survived the crash okay, it was in hospital they nearly killed me...

Yes...well that does happen too...lots. Just wasn't your 'time', eh?

My van was a '93 model, so quite old, ...

But still way better than a '70s vehicle. Or one 20 years old then. Back then, many didn't even have a basic seatbelt. And your's would have been retractable too.

[Edbear]

Yes...well that does happen too...lots. Just wasn't your 'time', eh?

But still way better than a '70s vehicle. Or one 20 years old then. Back then, many didn't even have a basic seatbelt. And your's would have been retractable too.

I'm a stubborn old coot, I've survived several attempts at dying...

Yep, even a late 80's vehicle is a lot safer. I remember when the HQ Holden came out in late 1971, a lot of noise was made over it's safety features, the unibody/cage construction, power discs and collapsable steering column. Then the HZ in late '78 with its "Radial Tuned Suspension".

I remember working in a garage in the mid-70's installing the latest in safety features, the seatbelt. Either lap for the middle or diagonal for the outer seats. Then they decided lap and diagonal was best for the outer seats. We drilled holes in B-pillars and floors, strengthened with thick washers. By '79/'80, we could install retractable belts which caused some issues with seat runner clearance as the reel was bolted to the base of the B-pillar and protruded into the cabin space at the base of the seat.

The 90's saw crumple zones, seat-belt grabbers and air-bags becoming available in less expensive cars, ABS brakes were standard on our '99 Pulsar SLX and being the SLX had 4-wheel disc brakes and bigger alloys and tyres. Driver's air-bag only though on our model.

The reason I like retro, is because you can have the style you are fond of from your youth but modern engineering.

[PeteJ]

Sidelight, but an important one:

If you cannot even tell your actual speed without referring to a speedo, how can you tell what would be a safe speed without a speed limit at all?

(Disclaimer: my experience is confined to 5 years - 1975-80 - with one of my bikes having no operating speedometer, competing in road trial etc; so I know nothing personally about this, of course...)

[Ocean1]

LSZ signs were not respected and they were taken away because the public did not understand them.

That'd be a troll, surely.

A member of ‘Er Majesties’ finest wouldn’t be so supercilious and arrogant as to utter such drivel, for all love?

[MSTRS:Me]

That'd be a troll, surely.

A member of ‘Er Majesties’ finest wouldn’t be so supercilious and arrogant as to utter such drivel, for all love?

*splutter*

'twere nought to wif unnerstandin' - an' all to do wif assumshun that drivers 'ave to be told wot to do.

[MSTRS:Me]

Sidelight, but an important one:

If you cannot even tell your actual speed without referring to a speedo, how can you tell what would be a safe speed without a speed limit at all?

Every road has what I call a 'natural speed'...a speed at which one is comfortable negotiating that road in safety. Trouble is, that speed is different for each of us. Factors such as what vehicle, it's condition, weather, experience, ability all come into play (assuming a free run with no Mabels in the way). It is patently obvious that some roads are rated too slow, but as riders we try to avoid them, except as a means of getting to the roads that present a challenge, even at legal speeds.