Police saving our lives again

[scumdog]

You dudes still not allowed to ambush patrons outside a pub carpark of an evening?

Hell, my BEST 'hunting' has been by ambushing pub leavers..

[MSTRS:Me]

I thought it was illegal to set bait...

[Edbear]

In most cases a persons BEST driving is when they know they're being watched.

More muftis needed I say.

More Mufti's are fine, but I also think a visible presence has an important part to play. Anything that reminds a driver/rider to pay attention to their driving/riding has to be a good thing.

I thought it was illegal to set bait...

It's definitely illegal to drink and drive, so the only people who need worry are those who choose to do so. Personally I'd be fine with a cop car parked outside every Pub!

Why do people on the one hand deplore drunk driving, yet criticise the Police for so-called entrapment?

[MSTRS:Me]

If one has to explain what one means, then one is talking to the wrong audience...

[scumdog]

More Mufti's are fine, but I also think a visible presence has an important part to play. Anything that reminds a driver/rider to pay attention to their driving/riding has to be a good thing.

Yeah, but when they can no longer see a cop car? - it's brain in neutral and resume non-compo-mentis driving behaviour that they wouldn't do when there was a cop nearby.

[MSTRS:Me]

Yeah, but when they can no longer see a cop car? - it's brain in neutral and resume non-compo-mentis driving behaviour that they wouldn't do when there was a cop nearby.

True that. Funny how they all know what to do at roundabouts when there's a marked car sitting observing...

[Edbear]

Yeah, but when they can no longer see a cop car? - it's brain in neutral and resume non-compo-mentis driving behaviour that they wouldn't do when there was a cop nearby.

Yeah, like when you keep checking your mirror to notice when you've drawn ahead far enough that you can ease down on the accelerator without him noticing your increase in speed... Or saying, "About time!" when he turns off the road and you can edge back up to where you were...

I always laugh to see traffic doing just under the 100km/h suddenly slow down to 85-90km/h when they spot a cop, usually far too late to do anything about it if they'd been speeding anyway, (or when the copper is on the opposite side of the median barrier and stopped to talk to a driver they've pulled over), then speed up back to their sub-legal former speed once past!

I've often been overtaken by drivers doing about the 120 mark who halfway past spot a camera van or cop and slam the brakes on, falling back behind me to about 90 while I continue along at my steady 105, then have them come barrelling up behind and passing me again once clear!

[scumdog]

I always laugh to see traffic doing just under the 100km/h suddenly slow down to 85-90km/h when they spot a cop, usually far too late to do anything about it if they'd been speeding anyway, (or when the copper is on the opposite side of the median barrier and stopped to talk to a driver they've pulled over), then speed up back to their sub-legal former speed once past!

Yep, poh-leece cars have a magic gizmo that sucks horsepower out of any car near them....

Or so you would think when you see what happens when they get near most cars.

[Edbear]

Yep, poh-leece cars have a magic gizmo that sucks horsepower out of any car near them....

Or so you would think when you see what happens when they get near most cars.

It must be so stressful to drive on the roads here, having to worry about glancing down a the speedo regularly to check your speed, worry that that cop is going to pull you over despite your speed being under the limit, worry that driving a car or bike unregistered and unwarranted may get you in trouble, worrying that you might come across a Booze Bus when you know you've had too much but drove/rode anyway on the chance you'll be fine...

Boy the Cops have so much to answer for!

[Dare]

In most cases a persons BEST driving is when they know they're being watched.

More muftis needed I say.

I'd be happier with that notion if I was sure that the muftis were pulling people over for running red lights/failing to indicate/pulling into moving traffic without looking etc rather than doing 56/106kmh. Re: Edbears comment I was in the UK a few years ago and traffic regularly moves at 80-90mph without anyone losing control of their vehicle (gasp).. The difference is there are less people driving in a kind of daydream where mirrors, safe following distance and peripheral vision are for other people.

[shrub]

I'd be happier with that notion if I was sure that the muftis were pulling people over for running red lights/failing to indicate/pulling into moving traffic without looking etc rather than doing 56/106kmh. Re: Edbears comment I was in the UK a few years ago and traffic regularly moves at 80-90mph without anyone losing control of their vehicle (gasp).. The difference is there are less people driving in a kind of daydream where mirrors, safe following distance and peripheral vision are for other people.

It's my belief as an experienced road user that higher speeds may in fact be safer. I know when I travel at slow speeds on the open road i find myself drifting off into a day dream, whereas at my preferred open road speed of 120 kmh I am travelling fast enough that I know I have to concentrate and remain completely focussed on the task in hand - riding.

[Edbear]

I'd be happier with that notion if I was sure that the muftis were pulling people over for running red lights/failing to indicate/pulling into moving traffic without looking etc rather than doing 56/106kmh. Re: Edbears comment I was in the UK a few years ago and traffic regularly moves at 80-90mph without anyone losing control of their vehicle (gasp).. The difference is there are less people driving in a kind of daydream where mirrors, safe following distance and peripheral vision are for other people.

The standard of driving in the UK and Germany is generally far higher than here. The consequences of losing your licence in Germany are extremely serious and it is very hard and very expensive to get it back!

And I have asked the cops on here if they can confirm the interest they take in policing those other areas you mention as well.

It's my belief as an experienced road user that higher speeds may in fact be safer. I know when I travel at slow speeds on the open road i find myself drifting off into a day dream, whereas at my preferred open road speed of 120 kmh I am travelling fast enough that I know I have to concentrate and remain completely focussed on the task in hand - riding.

That's the rub, isn't it? For every person experienced and capable, comfortable with speeds over the speed limit, there are a few hundred, (thousand?), who are, shall we say, "Unsafe at any speed!" The cops have no way of telling if the person they clock over the limit is competent or not and speed cameras are arbitrary and impersonal. The accident record, though, shows too often that those who crash definitely thought they were quite capable of handling the speeds they were driving at. The cops have to be consistent, otherwise with doubt and uncertainty as to the consequences of exceeding the limit, far more drivers/riders would do so on the off-chance they will be able to get off.

[shrub]

That's the rub, isn't it? For every person experienced and capable, comfortable with speeds over the speed limit, there are a few hundred, (thousand?), who are, shall we say, "Unsafe at any speed!" The cops have no way of telling if the person they clock over the limit is competent or not and speed cameras are arbitrary and impersonal. The accident record, though, shows too often that those who crash definitely thought they were quite capable of handling the speeds they were driving at. The cops have to be consistent, otherwise with doubt and uncertainty as to the consequences of exceeding the limit, far more drivers/riders would do so on the off-chance they will be able to get off.

Personally I think licensing should be much, much harder. I wouldn't have a problem resitting all my licenses every 5 years - I'd probably let my heavy trade lapse because I haven't driven a truck in 15 years, but i'd be happy to be checked regularly.

I'd also like to see formal driver and rider training made compulsory and licenses dependent on distance travelled, not time. Make learners keep a log book and record their driving and riding experience, and only issue a license once someone has driven a minimum amount on the open road, in the dark, in rain etc - maybe we wouldn't get people completely losing the plot the moment it starts raining.

I believe 99.9% of the population don't want to drive badly or dangerously, but the high percentage of idiots on the road are idiots because they know no better. I was travelling with a friend who was tailgating everyone she was behind, and I commented on it. She replied "I'm not following too close - am I?" So we did the 2 second test, and she realised she was tailgating, and when I explained that if the person in front had to stop she would be liable for the crash she pulled back. Her bad driving was due to ignorance not attitude, so why try and change her attitude by penalising her when educating makes more sense?

As for the open road speed, if people understood more about road safety and had better driving skills, speeds would be self policing because the only people who are going to intentionally place themselves in danger are the people who don't give a shit about the law anyway. I like to cruise at 120 kmh not 130 kmh because I don't feel safe at 130, and people who feel comfortable at 110 kmh will travel at that speed, and so on. The only rule should be a minimum speed of (say) 90 kmh. If you can't travel at that speed, then you have no right to be on the open road. There should also be more passing lanes and slow drivers should be educated to pull over.

[red mermaid]

So following that line of reasoning, around town at about 50 km/h you would be practically dangerous and should walk?

It's my belief as an experienced road user that higher speeds may in fact be safer. I know when I travel at slow speeds on the open road i find myself drifting off into a day dream, whereas at my preferred open road speed of 120 kmh I am travelling fast enough that I know I have to concentrate and remain completely focussed on the task in hand - riding.

[Neshi]

Enough of your crazy ideas!! The gubbinment knows better.

That would be "failure to keep left" and should be at ANY speed.



I had an interesting chat with a German fellow who sat his licence some years ago.
A minimum of 15 lessons from an instructor.
Specific areas of training (motorway, city, open road, parking, etc, etc).
NO family member allowed to train another.
The equivalent of 4 MONTHS pay to obtain the licence (reason to NOT do anything silly and lose it!).

Food for thought Mr Politician.

just 15?
In the Netherlands it's a minimum of 25 hours for a car license, and 20 for a motorcycle.. the rest is exactly the same.