MNZ licences...clarification?

**Ktmboy** · 20th October 2010, 21:31

OK, I have been asked this a few times recently. But first an overview.

Firstly, there are the commercial trail ride/race operators like ourselves (Endless Dirt Biking), Power adventures, Stu from Over The top and Nick from Epic etc. We all pay our own liability insurance to the same spec as MNZ.
Then there are the charity ride organisers, schools etc, whom I suspect do not pay didly squat insurance (Mr Motorcycles excluded)

Then there are the MNZ registered clubs. Rodney, Waitemata, Pukekohe MCC etc etc through out NZ.

Q; When Waitemata MCC for example hold a race then you have to be either a MNZ licence holder or you buy a day licence to race, correct?

However, it seems that sometimes MNZ clubs hold race events that you don't need an MNZ licence to compete in.
Could someone please clarify if and when a MNZ affliated club can hold a race event that doesn't require either MNZ race licence or a day licence?

Q; Sorry another question. Who can become a MNZ club? we have a bush basher club. 15 members. Can we then be a MNZ club.

Just putting the questions out there that I have been asked.

**takitimu** · 20th October 2010, 22:20

Not sure about up other clubs, but we're not MNZ affiliated, but do have insurance to pretty much the same spec as Sean Clarke ( he's got a bit more forestry to reflect how much of that riding he does ), the fact it's the same is because it's the same insurance agent

.
I know my sister helps run an Trail Ride event in Southland, once a year fund raiser & they have appropriate insurance, I'm sure some don't, but personally I've never heard of one.
Regarding clubs running MNZ/non MNZ insured events, i know whangarei have their own insurance so they can do both.
I think the insurance companies should provide some for of certification you can display at events & in advertising personally.

**ellipsis** · 20th October 2010, 23:18

...why not direct your question to MNZ....this same question came up at an MNZ officials seminar i was at recently...and i am still trying to find the answer in the rule-book...

**scott411** · 21st October 2010, 07:35

ok, ill answer some of the questions that i know,

i run events under MNZ and not, and under 3 different ways, i know i walk a fine line alot of the time, and one day will prob get my wings clipped for it.

since i am the president of the pukekohe motorcycle Club (mnz affilaited) most of our races are MNZ permitted, and also the Mr Motorcycle trail rides have been as well.

(you do not have to have a liceince for a trail ride because it is a non speed event, it is rather stupid rule, but it is there and no amount of trying seems to get it changed)

Now since the Pukekohe MCC run there own practice days, and have done for over 20 years we have our own insurance as well, so can run events without MNZ and still have cover,

now my Maize Paddock races would have needed everyone to have liceinces or day liceinces if i was to have run it under a MNZ permit, (due to the fact that they have clutch starts they are considered speed events) so i have my own insurance though Mr Motorcycles for those events,

now to become a MNZ club, the real basics are you need to be an incorperated society, and so on, then apply to MNZ, they ask all the clubs close to you if they object, and if you run the same type of events around you as other clubs and clash they may not give you affilation, not all people get accepted, a long time ago ardmore (john cobb) tried to join MNZ, but was denied affilation, (but that is a long story for someone else to tell)

**wingman7nz** · 21st October 2010, 10:55

i heard another story about AMA(ardmore club) that they were affiliated with MNZ then they broke away cos didnt want to pay MNZ fees etc?? how does john run his race days.. does he have personal insurance to cover?

how does Ken Fell run also ? ive always wondered how these 2 events run.. u sign a waiver or disclaimer is that about it? but we do that at sign on for PMCC and other club days anyway along with MNZ license

**B0000M** · 21st October 2010, 11:06

cobb started his own organisation called dirt bike federation, there is little information available on the net, but he is apparently the man to talk to about it. basicly its just a set of rules and a name, with virtually no fees paid to anyone, and the club will need to organise its own insurance

**scott411** · 21st October 2010, 11:08

Originally Posted by wingman7nz

i heard another story about AMA(ardmore club) that they were affiliated with MNZ then they broke away cos didnt want to pay MNZ fees etc?? how does john run his race days.. does he have personal insurance to cover?

how does Ken Fell run also ? ive always wondered how these 2 events run.. u sign a waiver or disclaimer is that about it? but we do that at sign on for PMCC and other club days anyway along with MNZ license

i know John has insurance, not sure with Ken Fell,

Insurance is to cover the organisers to be sued, or prosocuted, but with insurance if you organise something and you do it pourly you can be charged by the police if something goes wrong, right up to manslaughter if they beleive your actions in running the event were bad, it does not matter if you run under MNZ or your own insurance, you can be held responsible if the worst happens

MNZ has a death cover if you die in one of there permitted events and are have a comp licience, it is $30k cover from memory,

Back in the early days of Ardmore and the Auckland Motocross Assc, John ran under the Papakura MCC under MNZ, i think there was more than one reason why he stopped doing that, that was a long time ago, i was riding 80's at the time

**fossil** · 22nd October 2010, 07:19

Rather than worry about what insurance the operators/business owners have at non MNZ events I'd be more concerned about what insurance I have as a rider. They have insurance to try to protect their arse, not insurance to protect mine.
I believe that legally I am personally responsible for any damage or injury that I create/cause while riding a one of these events. The sign in sheet with disclaimer (sic) is about protecting the business and people that are running the event from responsibility for damage/fire etc, not me.

**scott411** · 22nd October 2010, 11:41

Originally Posted by fossil

Rather than worry about what insurance the operators/business owners have at non MNZ events I'd be more concerned about what insurance I have as a rider. They have insurance to try to protect their arse, not insurance to protect mine.
I believe that legally I am personally responsible for any damage or injury that I create/cause while riding a one of these events. The sign in sheet with disclaimer (sic) is about protecting the business and people that are running the event from responsibility for damage/fire etc, not me.

isn't that the case with MNZ run events anyway?

here is the section on section of the MNZ DISCLAIMER OF LIABILITY (off their website)

4. Neither I, or anyone associated or connected with me will make any claim against you or your officers, employees or agents in respect of: a) any injury suffered by me; or b) any damage to any of my property regardless of how the injury or damage occurs.

that disclaimer does not protect you if another competitor wants to sue you, i know this came up in Aussie Rugby League when Jared McCracken sued a competitor for ending his career with a illigal tackle, i can not remember if he won his case,

I know with ACC we gave up the right to sue for injury, but you may be able to go after the cost of a bike repair maybe, would prob cost more in legal fees tho,

**fossil** · 22nd October 2010, 23:38

Originally Posted by scott411

isn't that the case with MNZ run events anyway?

here is the section on section of the MNZ DISCLAIMER OF LIABILITY (off their website)

4. Neither I, or anyone associated or connected with me will make any claim against you or your officers, employees or agents in respect of: a) any injury suffered by me; or b) any damage to any of my property regardless of how the injury or damage occurs.

that disclaimer does not protect you if another competitor wants to sue you, i know this came up in Aussie Rugby League when Jared McCracken sued a competitor for ending his career with a illigal tackle, i can not remember if he won his case,

I know with ACC we gave up the right to sue for injury, but you may be able to go after the cost of a bike repair maybe, would prob cost more in legal fees tho,

To compete at an MNZ event you have to have a license and be a member of a club. You acknowledge the rules and agree to comply with them,you agree to abide by the Constitution of MNZ, but Scott you know all this. Businesses who run events do it for the money, they have a different set of priorities to clubs(generally). In a lot of cases they can have cheaper fees because they don't operate under the same health and safety standards as MNZ, they cut corners to make more money. They operate as businesses and should be treated as such. If it's dusty and dangerous, or not rideable in the wet, not as described in the ads, get your money back. You are paying a fee for a service. Just the same way you wouldn't pay for work on your bike if it wasn't up to scratch.
The Jared McCracken incident was just as you state, an illegal act under the law, not an accident or in our cases a racing incident.

**scott411** · 23rd October 2010, 07:25

I am not sure what you are saying now, is it the fact that if you ride in a non MNZ meeting the person or people running it are money hungry bastards?

you state you should ask for a refund if things are not up to scratch, its a dangerous statement to make, as the commerce commission would view a club taking someones money exactly the same as a promoter. and most events have a force majeure clause in their entry forms,

i have been to alot of well run events that are non MNZ, and i have been to some events run under MNZ that are poorly run and are in my opinion dangerous, in my opinion the people running the event make more of a difference than wether they have a permit.

ps: where's Noel these days, i have not seen him on the interweb for a while, i would not mind knowing if those cheap transponder system he was quoting a year or so ago came through?

**takitimu** · 23rd October 2010, 07:43

Originally Posted by scott411

s: where's Noel these days, i have not seen him on the interweb for a while, i would not mind knowing if those cheap transponder system he was quoting a year or so ago came through?

x2, I'm real curious as well.

**Ktmboy** · 23rd October 2010, 08:06

[QUOTE=fossil;1129890485]To compete at an MNZ event you have to have a license and be a member of a club. You acknowledge the rules and agree to comply with them,you agree to abide by the Constitution of MNZ, but Scott you know all this. Businesses who run events do it for the money, they have a different set of priorities to clubs(generally). In a lot of cases they can have cheaper fees because they don't operate under the same health and safety standards as MNZ, they cut corners to make more money. They operate as businesses and should be treated as such. If it's dusty and dangerous, or not rideable in the wet, not as described in the ads, get your money back. QUOTE]

What planet are you on?

You are making a very broad and ambiguous statement. We never cut corners to make money and I challenge you to identify any club or promotor in NZ or the southern hemisphere that has a better H&S record than us.
Only 15 ambulances (2 in the last 2 months) and three helicopters in 3 years. 50,000 riders in that time. I've seen more ambulances in one day at certain "official" events.
Don't know where you get your info from but its not substantiated and is unfounded BS.
As far as getting you money back...haha. If you go to the movies and don't like the flick do you get a refund. Nah.