Knee ligament advice needed!

[Crisis management]

Knowing some of you on here have had ligament repairs done (Vazza?) I need some advice about recovery time and how successfull it has been plus any other comments.
I have managed to tear my posterior cruciate ligament, the one at the back of the knee opposing the ACL, in half and I suspect the doctor is going to want to sew it back together. Given it is only a problem (now the swelling has gone down) when I'm running (tends to swell and is a bit sore) one option may be to leave it alone and just strengthen the muscles around the knee to compensate, has anyone had experience with leaving the ligament broken long term?

What I want to achieve is a workable knee for the next 40 or so years but if not repairing it is a viable alternative I want to know about any experience you may have had. Alternatively, how long is the recovery after surgery and how much effort is required to get your knee back in action.

Remember I'm not young & fit like you guys, being 54 and having a preference for beer rather than the gym will affect my outcome.

Finally the safety warnings....don't backflip your bike on whoops and wear knee braces (I do now)

[SpikedPunch]

has anyone had experience with leaving the ligament broken long term?

Yes, I did this injury a few years ago. The surgeon I spoke to won't do PCL reconstructions, I don't think they are very common in NZ as they aren't super successful or something. You will have to keep the muscles around it strong and you should be sweet. So lots of physio and then when he/she gets it feeling good, lots of weights. I can run on mine now and it's fine 98% of he time. It's just when I re-injure it or twist it laterally that it swells up and hurts like a bastard.

[FlangMasterJ]

My brother had one of his ligaments repaired. I'm not sure if the ligament was just a bit damaged or torn but he was back into his bodybuilding six weeks later. After a couple of years he was back to squatting and leg pressing the same amount before the surgery.

[Crisis management]

It's just when I re-injure it or twist it laterally that it swells up and hurts like a bastard.

Thanks for all that, good to know it may be manageable rather than requiring surgery, when you mention re-injury, does that occur in "normal" life, ie: a running, walking, lifting type of injury rather than a sports (riding) injury?
Do you wear a knee brace other than for riding, such as a support for running?

Ta
Iain

[D3ALN]

I tore them all cleanly when I brokme my leg above knee and below knee and shattered my knee cap. Don't let Dr Elliot in Hawkes Bay go anywhere near it. Mine still causes me grief and i did it when I was 13 Im 19 now

[Motu]

Just get it locked up - knees are overated.

[Gibbo89]

I think I may be missing something.

why would you not want the surgery? Surely you would like to go under the knife and see if they can make a good job of it?

post surgery will consist of bed rest type stuff and physio.

[Crisis management]

Just get it locked up - knees are overated.

Bastard, you're a short arse anyway so you don't need knees to touch the ground......

I think I may be missing something.

why would you not want the surgery?

I want to know what choices there are before I make them, either surgery or not are both viable choices but the outcomes may be different. Having got the joint working satisfactorily so far I'm not looking forward to having to spend another 3 months getting going again post surgery.

[SpikedPunch]

Thanks for all that, good to know it may be manageable rather than requiring surgery, when you mention re-injury, does that occur in "normal" life, ie: a running, walking, lifting type of injury rather than a sports (riding) injury?
Do you wear a knee brace other than for riding, such as a support for running?

Ta
Iain

Sports injury, like an accidental front flip I did a little tear on my LCL and ACL earlier this year and I was definitely out longer than I would have been had I not already lost the PCL previously. I don't wear a knee brace at the moment, just regular guards. I should really buy one. I tried to wangle a free one off of ACC but it wasn't approved. Boo.
Edit: Oh yeah, I don't wear a brace for running etc. But I work pretty hard on my weights and stuff keeping the muscles around the knee strong, so that seems to work well for preventing injury.

[honda_power]

i tore up ligaments in my foot around 6 months ago and its still swolen, supposed to have moon boot on for 2-3months, i was riding 2 weeks later. wish i did it properly, hurts like shit and swells up more if its knocked. so take the docs advice haha

[Mom]

I have no ACL snapped it cleanly several years ago chasing sheep. I went to see a top orthopod in Auckland and he advised against surgery for it. This knee has also had a medial ligament release (I damamged the cartlidge under the knee cap) and this loosened the knee cap so it did not rub against the joint so hard.

The reason he was anti surgery is that it would have taken just as long to recover from the surgery as it would to rehabilitate the knee without surgery for the same result. It took ages to come right, at times I thought it never would, but finally I began to trust it again.

It rarely gives any problems now, having said that I dont play squash or ride off road, where huge load is put on knees. Good luck with it, hurts like a bastard eh

[Crisis management]

Thanks Mom, sounds like the sort of outcome I can live with.....was a bit sore when I did it, the funniest part was trying to stand on my one good leg and kick start the bike so I could ride back to the car, took several attempts!

[Pierce]

why would you not want the surgery? Surely you would like to go under the knife and see if they can make a good job of it?

post surgery will consist of bed rest type stuff and physio.

Surgery is pretty hard on the body and isn't always the best option. I've had my ACL done twice. The first time they had to flush out all the cartilage and repair the MCL.
I had to have the surgery because the ACL had stretched so much that it flipped inside the knee joint (meaning I couldn't full straighten or full flex the knee). Also had a chunk of cartilage in the knee joint. The 2nd time my ACL had fully ruptured so I had over a year without an ACL at all (was getting worse everyday).

The recovery time really depends on the work needed and the personal beliefs of your surgeon. First one told me 9 months before being able to ride again and the 2nd told me 6 months and needing 90% muscle mass in the quads compared to your good leg.

I got the ok from my surgeon today however only had shoulder surgery 2months ago and won't be riding again till the end of the year.

[Keithf]

I hyper extended/twisted my knee badly just under a month ago and it is just coming right now.

My doctor and the specialist I saw yesterday suggested that my knee is a bit loose which might indicate that one of the cruciate ligaments might be stuffed -but that it has probably been this way for a while and strongly recommend not operating and rehab instead. I will need a reconstruction at some stage though.

When I did it I didn't dare stop as I knew I would struggle to start my bike-and it wasn't funny!

Thanks Mom, sounds like the sort of outcome I can live with.....was a bit sore when I did it, the funniest part was trying to stand on my one good leg and kick start the bike so I could ride back to the car, took several attempts!

[Woodman]

I tore my cruciant ligament, (can't remember if it was anterior? or posterior?) in a car vs bike crash when I was 17 or so, then majorly aggravated it playing rugby a few of years later. Had a season off footy with my knee clunking in and out often, then got back on the field for another 20 full seasons.

What I did was a fair bit of quadricep strengthening work to compensate. Not many full heavy squats as this tended to push the top of my leg over my knee so was a bit hard on it. Strangely the only thing that really bugs it is golf. I think it is the sideways force or something.

The bottom half of my right leg sits back about an inch compared to the left but otherwise it hasn't given much trouble