The Lean - A statistical factsheet

[Squiggles]

Be interested to see that study about returning riders if you do come across it.

Frustratingly can't locate it, I remember it being posted here as well as getting an email about it. Alot of ulysses members took part

[bogan]

Frustratingly can't locate it, I remember it being posted here as well as getting an email about it. Alot of ulysses members took part

I know the feeling, I keep remembering shit I've read bout these issues but not where its from, gonna use the save option far more from now on I reckon

also, you wouldn't happen to have (or know somebody that might) the doc ACC put about which showed some of the working they had used to calculate that our 'true' cost was like 3k or wahtever. I remember seeing them use a bunch of % risk factors for different cc's, but can't find it anywhere, and lots of the links posted up a year ago are now dead.

[NONONO]

There isnt much interpretation, more a rehash of what the individual documents state =\

I'd also look at the age of riders and the so called "returning riders". I had a study from Auckland Uni (i think) on that but can't find it now. Very interesting as it put us at the end of that era (meanwhile plenty of funding is being poured into it)




No need to theorise about fault, the breakdown is listed on page 6 of the MoT Crash Stats 2008.

Your investigations must have been very superficial then.
No, you're right if it's MOT quoted then it must be gospel....

[Berries]

Well yeh, with only general figures available, we could only comment on the general state of things.

Only general figures might have been published, because there are endless ways of interrogating the data. 40 to 50 year old males crashing post 2005 bikes of 750cc and over. At night. While sober. Can be done, you just need to ask the right people. In fact, if you are serious about looking at crash data then for a couple of hundred dollars you could probably get your own CAS licence.

Would really like to get some more data to work with, especially separate stats for scoots vs motorcycles. But with what I've seen to start getting into detail requires a lot of assumptions...

If scoots = mopeds then they are classed separately to motorbikes and as such are easy to remove from the data.

[bogan]

Only general figures might have been published, because there are endless ways of interrogating the data. 40 to 50 year old males crashing post 2005 bikes of 750cc and over. At night. While sober. Can be done, you just need to ask the right people. In fact, if you are serious about looking at crash data then for a couple of hundred dollars you could probably get your own CAS licence.


If scoots = mopeds then they are classed separately to motorbikes and as such are easy to remove from the data.

Would certainly be interesting to get into the raw data of it all, but not sure if it'd be much practical use. Bikers and general public probably only want the general analysis, as personal riding styles are likely to cancel out any specific demographics they are in. And TPTB seem to just ignore that we can see through and expose their lies and misleading stats. In saying that, if anyone offered to run a few queries through for free we certainly wouldn't say no!

Also, thats an interesting observation, if its so easy one wonders why ACC haven't separated them?

[Squiggles]

[/I][/B]


Your investigations must have been very superficial then.
No, you're right if it's MOT quoted then it must be gospel....

I was actually attempting to better quantify "It is likely intersection accidents will be predominantly caused by other motorists not doing adequate check for bikes"

Do you believe the MoT are out to get us?

also, you wouldn't happen to have (or know somebody that might) the doc ACC put about which showed some of the working they had used to calculate that our 'true' cost was like 3k or wahtever. I remember seeing them use a bunch of % risk factors for different cc's, but can't find it anywhere, and lots of the links posted up a year ago are now dead.

I've got it at work, will have to upload it and all the studies

[Katman]

In saying that, if anyone offered to run a few queries through for free we certainly wouldn't say no!

Hell, if it's as easy as Berries suggests to get a CAS license and MAG-NZ don't have the spare funds yet to do so, I'll happily stump up the $200 for someone within the organisation to obtain the license.

(Of course, it would have to be someone capable of carrying out unbiased research).

[NONONO]

Hell, if it's as easy as Berries suggests to get a CAS license and MAG-NZ don't have the spare funds yet to do so, I'll happily stump up the $200 for someone within the organisation to obtain the license.

(Of course, it would have to be someone capable of carrying out unbiased research).

Not me then.
Problem with CAS it is dependent on the data collected and fed in.
The problem lies with how it's collected.

[mashman]

In fact, if you are serious about looking at crash data then for a couple of hundred dollars you could probably get your own CAS licence.

I've had this data before (in the UK) and it cost thousands of pounds, couple of hundy is damn cheap. Is there any supporting documentation anywhere, that outlines the database design or an outlines the information that is held on the database?

What database engine does CAS use? Can you export the data?

[bogan]

I've got it at work, will have to upload it and all the studies

that'd be awesome, send it straight to john.howarth@mag-nz.org if you have any issues uploading it here.

Hell, if it's as easy as Berries suggests to get a CAS license and MAG-NZ don't have the spare funds yet to do so, I'll happily stump up the $200 for someone within the organisation to obtain the license.

(Of course, it would have to be someone capable of carrying out unbiased research).

you've probably noticed we can manage some unbiased stuff in fact unbiased stats are the easiest, it's when you've gotta jigger them to say what you want em to say it gets tricky!

I've had this data before (in the UK) and it cost thousands of pounds, couple of hundy is damn cheap. Is there any supporting documentation anywhere, that outlines the database design or an outlines the information that is held on the database?

yeh, is worth looking into, would also need a source for total rider numbers/demographics to give the numbers correct context.

[mashman]

it's when you've gotta jigger them to say what you want em to say it gets tricky!

That's MUCH easier than you think . Exclude a category here, Include a category there, "group" your query slightly differently ... very easy.

yeh, is worth looking into, would also need a source for total rider numbers/demographics to give the numbers correct context.

As Berries keeps saying, know what questions you want answered, then you'll know what data you need.

[Berries]

I've had this data before (in the UK) and it cost thousands of pounds, couple of hundy is damn cheap. Is there any supporting documentation anywhere, that outlines the database design or an outlines the information that is held on the database?

What database engine does CAS use? Can you export the data?

Bit of info here - http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/cr...ystem/cas.html

Nonono is right, it can only analyse the data that gets fed in, so it is very much reliant on the quality of that and it can be variable at times. But it is as good as you'll get in NZ, and is the source used by MOT and others to determine priorities.

[mashman]

Bit of info here - http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/cr...ystem/cas.html

Nonono is right, it can only analyse the data that gets fed in, so it is very much reliant on the quality of that and it can be variable at times. But it is as good as you'll get in NZ, and is the source used by MOT and others to determine priorities.

Thanks for that. Shame you don't get the raw data on a CD each month like they do in the UK.

I think the easiest ACC claim to "debunk" or "confirm", using the CAS data alone, would be the cross-subsidy claim.

Could you find out, for 2009:

The TOTAL number of people that required hospitalisation, for ALL car crashes (including pedestrians etc...).
The TOTAL number of people that required hospitalisation, for ALL motorcycle crashes. (including pedestrians etc...).

I know I have made several assumptions, but i'm not looking for a statistical analysis, let alone one based on risk. I'm looking at the cold hard FACTS, not the future projections based on risk that the ACC seem to be producing to validate the cross-subsidy claim.

After all, hospitalisation is hospitalisation, and if you've been hospitalised due to a car crash, you woulda thought it'd have to be a doozy considering it's surrounded by metal, impact bars and air bags etc... I'd be interested to see those results... after all, you can fit more people in a car

[NONONO]

Would be interesting to know..but,
"ALL Motorcycle Crashes" would include all moped and scooter crashes, as well as all the 49cc and below vehicles which do not even need to be registered or WOF'ed.

[FJRider]

If nothing else, they give an indication of the extent of our problems and the direction we should be looking in.

(Oh, and they also categorically destroy the "it's always the fucking cage drivers fault" fallacy).

The FULL licence holders seem to be featuring .... if I get disqualified .... I must be less a risk ....