The Lean - A statistical factsheet

[Katman]

The ONLY thing that will turn this issue around is for the public in general to stand with us.

I agree entirely.

We need to work on getting the general public to believe that motorcyclists are worth standing with.

[NONONO]

Awesome work Mash...we will be looking deeper at this and showing it to some VERY senior pollies in the very near future.
Some sit downs already arranged and more to come....
You and Bogan need to link up formally (not thinking of a Civil Union here) this is the very stuff we need to counter the bull.

[MSTRS:Me]

I agree entirely.

We need to work on getting the general public to believe that motorcyclists are worth standing with.

That'd work. But, in reality, it is more likely to be a case of motorists 'joining' with us when they realise that they are being shafted too. It is bikers (and very few of them, I might add) that are driving the campaign to get the REAL facts in front of Joe Public. If and when he finally wakes up, it is us he will look to for leadership in turning this around.

[mashman]

Awesome work Mash...we will be looking deeper at this and showing it to some VERY senior pollies in the very near future.
Some sit downs already arranged and more to come....
You and Bogan need to link up formally (not thinking of a Civil Union here) this is the very stuff we need to counter the bull.

make sure the figures are correct first , although they seem to be sound. Give it to Charlie Lamb, he's got the respectability and quite possibly the figures that would firm up the results.

[bogan]

make sure the figures are correct first , although they seem to be sound. Give it to Charlie Lamb, he's got the respectability and quite possibly the figures that would firm up the results.

yeh I only got the injury and rego figures, nothin about the cost on injuries, all would have to be filled in to get firm results. Have a look round ACC's website for any injury costs and you may find something useable. I think there are some yearly totals on there...

[mashman]

Something else to consider from the consultation document name (off the ACC site, you've possibly already seen it)

Full levy consultation document 2011/12.

"We’re already making promising progress, which means the levy increases we’re proposing this year are far less significant than those we proposed in 2009. For example:
• We’re proposing no increase at all in the average work levy, although some individual industries may see rises. And we anticipate no further levy rises in the foreseeable future
• We’re proposing a 2.5% increase in the average motor vehicle levy, which means that some vehicle classes will increase and others will decrease. The average increase is equivalent to the forecast long-term inflation rate. Our plan for this Account does include very small increases for the next two years, again at the rate of inflation, but after that no more rises should be necessary, assuming everything goes as expected
• We propose a 6.7% increase in the earners’ levy, which is paid by everyone in the paid workforce. Again, we plan no more increases from 2012/13 onwards."

There's more levies on the way folks. And it's all due to their "ACCounting" methods. I'd love to see the actual figures.

[pzkpfw]

• We’re proposing a 2.5% increase in the average motor vehicle levy, which means that some vehicle classes will increase and others will decrease. The average increase is equivalent to the forecast long-term inflation rate. Our plan for this Account does include very small increases for the next two years, again at the rate of inflation, but after that no more rises should be necessary, assuming everything goes as expected

My mate who works at ACC told me that in the next planned round of adjustments, cars were going to go up a little and bikes were going to go down a little; but because the Govt. decided to make no changes...

(I'll try and get more details this weekend, if I bump into him.)

[oldrider]

Yep it gets tedious and repetitive and boring but the alternative is to give up and accept the lies and bullying, and in so doing, accept that the grey buggers have the power to do whatever they like to you.

Few of us where talking to a local MP yesterday and he gave us some words of wisdom.
"Only when you have repeated your message so often and for so long, you are sick of hearing yourself say it, is the message just, just, beginning to get to joe public......."
I call this "The Katman Premise"....

This is more about breaking down the barriers of selective listening, a subconscious behaviour practised by the majority of human beings!

Like Mrs Marsh's chalk, there is a point where it does get it in!

That's the basis of TV advertising and using a machine gun!

[RidingHard]

Just came across this article on honda-motorcycles.co.nz (sorry if repost):

"Crash figures are being wrongly used to back large ACC levy increases for motorcyclists, a leading researcher says.

Lincoln University Associate Professor Charles Lamb, who heads the Australasian Institute of Motorcycle Studies project, said ACC and minister Nick Smith were basing the proposed increases on poor facts.

ACC wants to increase annual motorcycle levies by hundreds of dollars, with owners of machines over 601cc facing a massive rise from $252 to $745.

ACC said riders were 16 per cent more likely than other road users to be involved in a crash.

It paid $62 million in motorcyclists' claims last year, while receiving only $12m in levies from users.

Submissions on the levy proposal close on November 10.

Lamb said analysis of Ministry of Transport crash data showed 67 per cent of motorcycle accidents involved other drivers, and 60 per cent of those crashes were caused by the other driver.

He said ACC also wrongly loaded higher levy increases on to motorcycles with engines over 600cc.

Lamb said 43 per cent of the 420 accidents – studied last year – between motorcycles and other vehicles in Auckland and Canterbury did not have the bike's engine size on the police accident report. The most common engine size in the remaining 57 per cent of crash reports was 250cc, which lent no weight to charging higher levies on bigger machines, he said.

Smith said even if cars caused all accidents between vehicles and motorcycles, the cost of other motorcycle accidents exceeded the proposed levy.

Lamb said last year there were 1475 motorcycle accidents in New Zealand and 50 deaths.

By comparison, 36 cyclists died in 1170 bicycle accidents but the cycling community paid no levies.

Lamb said ACC figures also included injury crashes involving unregistered, offroad motorcycles and farm bikes."

http://www.honda-motorcycles.co.nz/n...asp?newsid=929

[mashman]

We need the actual number of registrations per vehicle for 2009 and i'd say we're done.

I've just sourced the average social cost per road injury to go with the total social cost... that elusive bastard...

Draw your own conclusions. But looking at the average social vehicle levy... it probably averages out better than MOST are currently paying, even for multiple vehicles. I really doubt their sums for some reason.

Does it tally well?

FC2.xls

[Katman]

Does it tally well?

Imagine how much better it could tally if we could cut the current rate of accidents by half.

[Ocean1]

Imagine how much better it could tally if we could cut the current rate of accidents by half.

How 'bout I throw an extra couple of hundred in the pot and you go find a bridge to jump off.

[Katman]

How 'bout I throw an extra couple of hundred in the pot and you go find a bridge to jump off.

How 'bout you go fuck yourself?

[mashman]

Imagine how much better it could tally if we could cut the current rate of accidents by half.

That will follow, hopefully . This is not a principled world. It's a financial world. Is all i can really say to that.

[bogan]

One thing I have noticed today, the ACC new claims currently are over 3x the recorded injuries, which may throw out your analysis as the average injuries would need to be changed to a much higher amount to fall in line with the ACC's figure. But I just can't see why the number of new claims is so much higher than the number of new injuries recorded, anyone have any ideas? Is it possible that over two thirds of injury causing on road motorcycle accidents go unrecorded by the proper authorities?