Biker down. Yep I just got bowled...

**Katman** · 10th November 2010, 19:22

Originally Posted by onearmedbandit

He is advocating avoiding an accident here. To make a safe pass, be it on the track or road, it is the responsibility of the passing driver/rider to make sure it is a clean pass. And although it shouldn't, this also refers to when you are in the 'right'.

I'm glad someone understands English.

**Antonio** · 10th November 2010, 19:25

Originally Posted by NONONO

Nice post Ant.......
Need to speak to you and the missus soon....

Thanks mate,
Sure, talk to you soon.

**Luckylegs** · 10th November 2010, 19:25

Originally Posted by jonbuoy

Katman I thought you were an advocate of a riding style that avoided any kind of accident regardless of who was mostly at in the first place?? Its a bit of a contradiction to all your other posts about personal responsibility. Being legally in the right doesn´t help when an overtaking car slams into the side of you or you get tangled up in a 12 year olds BMX. Onus and responsibility won´t mend broken bones.

I'm loathe to suggest your quite as thick as shrub (just yet) but FFA dude! As I explained in a previous post there are ways of not getting tangled up in a 12 year olds BMX (or hmx or Raleigh 20 or healing 10 speed) without using your wing mirror. As for the number of cars overtaking on the right while waiting to make a right turn... Maybe out on rural roads? But given this conversation came from an incident in a built up suburban environment tbh that has been my main point of reference when thinking about scenarios and what i do and and/or don't do

**onearmedbandit** · 10th November 2010, 19:37

I missed the bit about the 12yr old on a push bike. About 14yrs ago I was riding home on my GSXR750, about 60km/h down Ferry Rd. Two school age kids were riding in the same direction I was, ahead of me. At the very last minute one of them pulled right in front of me, leaving me nowhere to go, except over him. Luckily I didn't come off, and luckily he wasn't hurt. It wasn't my fault, I wasn't to blame, but I was responsible for hitting him. And at 21 it taught me a big lesson, expect the fucking unexpected.

Since that day I have had a similar thing happen to me at least a half dozen times, in my car or on my bike, and I've been ready for each. Now when I pass a cyclist I make sure it's done in a manner that means I won't be nursing a sore ankle for a week and a child is explaining to his father what happened to his bike. Or worse.

**jonbuoy** · 10th November 2010, 19:37

My aim and my point is that the accident could have been avoided if both people had done things differently. My aim when riding safely is to avoid any accident, regardless of who´s fault or responsibility it is. If a quick glance in my mirror or over my shoulder before pulling into a driveway or before making any turn can avoid a one in a million scenario then that's half a second well spent.

**shrub** · 10th November 2010, 19:40

Originally Posted by Luckylegs

You been reading selective posts again? You truly are a moron!

You have a lovely selection of posts for me to cringe over:

The best is probably: "when making a right turn on a sngle lane road, I am now obligated to ensure I'm not being overtaken at the same time ????". In New Zealand we drive on the left and overtake on the right of the vehicle we're passing. Therefore when turning right it's a really, really good idea to look in your right mirror before you turn in case someone is overtaking (which they're entitled to do). The same goes for doing right hand U turns - people who don't look have taken a lot of bikers out over the years.

Then just to prove you don't really understand this thing called "driving", you said: "but... are you telling me you do a head check and or check your mirror (the right one) when pulling into a driveway (on your right)??? "

the answer is, yes. It's a really, really, really good idea and if you continue to make right turns without seeing the need to look in your right mirror you will take someone out. I just hope it's a big arse truck and not a motorcycle.

Might I suggest you take up catching the bus and sell your bikes before you kill yourself?

**jonbuoy** · 10th November 2010, 19:40

Originally Posted by Luckylegs

I'm loathe to suggest your quite as thick as shrub (just yet) but FFA dude! As I explained in a previous post there are ways of not getting tangled up in a 12 year olds BMX (or hmx or Raleigh 20 or healing 10 speed) without using your wing mirror. As for the number of cars overtaking on the right while waiting to make a right turn... Maybe out on rural roads? But given this conversation came from an incident in a built up suburban environment tbh that has been my main point of reference when thinking about scenarios and what i do and and/or don't do

Wow, I feel so flattered.

**onearmedbandit** · 10th November 2010, 19:42

Originally Posted by jonbuoy

My aim and my point is that the accident could have been avoided if both people had done things differently. My aim when riding safely is to avoid any accident, regardless of who´s fault or responsibility it is. If a quick glance in my mirror or over my shoulder before pulling into a driveway or before making any turn can avoid a one in a million scenario then that's half a second well spent.

Exactly, Thing is, your safety is always your responsibility. And only your responsibility.

**shrub** · 10th November 2010, 19:52

Originally Posted by onearmedbandit

Exactly, Thing is, your safety is always your responsibility. And only your responsibility.

I was following a woman in an SUV down a quiet suburban street, doing around 30 kmh, and suddenly she slowed down unexpectedly with no indicators and stopped. The logical thing to do would be to have overtaken her (on her right hand side as is customary in NZ), but I know that even SUVs don't just stop for no reason, so I slowed to a crawl, and sure enough she turned right into the driveway on her right. If I had overtaken her I would have been flattened. She would have been in the wrong, but I would have been in the hospital.

I put that down to 30 odd years of riding and a healthy distrust of other road users meaning I was willing to stop even when at first glance I didn't have to. I take full responsibilty for my safety because I'm the only prick i have any control over.

**Katman** · 10th November 2010, 20:00

Cool, I'm glad we've established that this was an avoidable accident.

Now we're just left with a motorcyclist, who can't be fucked paying an ACC levy, needing medical attention.

**shrub** · 10th November 2010, 20:07

Originally Posted by Katman

Cool, I'm glad we've established that this was an avoidable accident.

Now we're just left with a motorcyclist, who can't be fucked paying an ACC levy, needing medical attention.

but phreak is (I think) a young guy getting his head around the bloody complex pursuit called motorcycling. He had been at a training day upping his skill, so he's someone who knew he needed to become a better rider and he made a decision that you or I, with many years experience, may not have made - not the bold text, we may have overtaken too because neiither of us were there and neither of us can say what we would have done in a situation we know little about.

And he had an off with little damage to himself and far too much damage to his bike through (largely) the actions of another road user. The only thing he did wrong was not have 30 years experience before he got on his bike.

**Katman** · 10th November 2010, 20:10

Originally Posted by shrub

The only thing he did wrong was not have 30 years experience before he got on his bike.

No, the only thing he did wrong was take the "fuck you cager" attitude instead of simply using his brakes.

**shrub** · 10th November 2010, 20:13

Originally Posted by Katman

No, the only thing he did wrong was take the "fuck you cager" attitude instead of simply using his brakes.

Did he? I must have missed the post where he said that's what he did. I just thought he made the decision to go around instead of stop, i had no idea he had said "fuck you cager" and his overtaking manouevre was an act of aggression, so please point me to where he admitted to that rather silly decision.

**jonbuoy** · 10th November 2010, 20:21

Originally Posted by shrub

but phreak is (I think) a young guy getting his head around the bloody complex pursuit called motorcycling. He had been at a training day upping his skill, so he's someone who knew he needed to become a better rider and he made a decision that you or I, with many years experience, may not have made - not the bold text, we may have overtaken too because neiither of us were there and neither of us can say what we would have done in a situation we know little about.

And he had an off with little damage to himself and far too much damage to his bike through (largely) the actions of another road user. The only thing he did wrong was not have 30 years experience before he got on his bike.

No one injured only property damage lesson learnt. 16 years ago I was charged with careless driving, I was making a right hand turn into a country layby, the car behind overtook me and slammed into the side of me knocking me unconscious. I was charged with careless driving (driver and witness in car behind said I wasn´t indicating). I´m as certain as I can be I was indicating - I was knocked unconscious so I don´t remember too well much about it at all. Lesson learned - check your stern before you turn... Regardless if you think you have right of way or not.