70kmh max for learners?

[p.dath]

Finally! A reasoned response. But I still don't agree...
Sure, things happen quicker at a higher speed and require more concentration to process. Using your own argument against you, if learner and traffic are travelling at the same speed, the learner is not having to also deal with impatient motorists doing silly shit around/past them. Which frees up part of what they must concentrate on.

The two biggest classes of motorcycle accidents (by a long way) are loss of control on a corner, and a vehicle pulling out in front of you from a side street.

If both cases, a reduced speed gives you more time to react. The 70km/h restriction simply addresses the greater majority of accident cases.

Allowing learners to ride at 100km/h would reduce the risk for maybe 10% of the accident causes, but increase the risk for the majority of the remaining accident types.

following that argument, should learner car drivers also be restricted to 70k?

A learner inside of a car is offered a far greater degree of protection that a learner on top of a motorbike.

[baptist]

Might not a law change allowing learners to ride bigger bikes also encourage (if that is the right word) them to break the 70kmh speed limit? A bigger heavier bike will be more comfortable at a higher speed. Personally as a learner (while I am not saying I never go over the speed limit) I do avoid motorways simply because of the 70kmh rule, even if it was raised to 85kmh it would be better.

I can accept the reasoning of the current limit as a way of allowing more time, less distance, to stop in as valid but not sure it is a justifiable, surely it would be better to increase the legal following distance requirements (two seconds to three seconds) for learners but allow them to keep up a speed that avoids some of the overtaking and cutting in that you see occuring.

[p.dath]

This is the link to the 2010 summary of motorcycle accidents by the ministry of transport:
http://www.transport.govt.nz/researc...sheet-2010.pdf

Some things to note immediately. 155 riders died in rural areas, versus 58 in urban areas.
So the earler argument about it being safer to ride at 100km/h because it is a rural road is in fact the exact opposite - your about 2.5 times more likely to be killed.

And it seems likely the reason why more riders die on rural roads is simple because they are travelling faster.

The vast majority of those accidents listed would not have been resolved by the learner travelling 30km/h faster than they should have been.

[superman]

This is the link to the 2010 summary of motorcycle accidents by the ministry of transport:
http://www.transport.govt.nz/researc...sheet-2010.pdf

Some things to note immediately. 155 riders died in rural areas, versus 58 in urban areas.
So the earler argument about it being safer to ride at 100km/h because it is a rural road is in fact the exact opposite - your about 2.5 times more likely to be killed.

And it seems likely the reason why more riders die on rural roads is simple because they are travelling faster.

The vast majority of those accidents listed would not have been resolved by the learner travelling 30km/h faster than they should have been.

You could not simply put that to driving faster! Rural roads have a bucket load of corners you cannot drive over 70km/h around. So making the statement that 100km/h is the likely reason is a leap of faith.

Rural roads are vastly more unpredictable, I bet all those deaths will be from people who usually ride urban and think I'll just go for a nice pleasant ride in the quiet country and from the start have a perception of an easy going ride.

How many of those deaths are from learners?

The main reason those figures are their is probably because most bikers live in urban areas therefore they are good at handling the situation they are used to. As would rural drivers.

It's getting out of that comfort situation and not expecting a flock of sheep around the corner or not seeing the poor quality bumpy chip seal.

But putting all that into just "speed" sounds almost like a police campaign!

[MSTRS:Me]

They were idiotic the first time round, I have no reason to believe that has changed?

Another fail! You seem to have trouble with comprehension.
I will try again. I can not promise words of one syl...a...bil - but I will try.

I advise (fuck) new riders (fuck) to ride at the speed of the rest of the traffic (fuck - I give up). If there is no other traffic, or the road is sparsely trafficked, then by all means observe the 70kph restriction. Most of us know that it is not possible to travel any distance, outside of a built up area, without encountering a 100kph zone, so I encourage commonsense. I also advise against riding well to the left. That only encourages lanesplitting by cars, at highway speeds, which is a frightening thing for a lot of riders but especially newbies.
Auckland newbies can avoid the motorway (SH1), there are options like Gt Sth Rd which runs the length of the place for instance, but westies might be fucked.
Welly is similar. OK from Porirua and southern suburbs, but Valley people are stuffed.
Is there even a motorway in ChCh?
In short, avoid motorways, and heavily trafficked 100kph roads, if possible. If not, ride at the traffic speed.

I'd also comment that every single law we have was enacted with good intentions. It does not follow that every law is a good one. Or through changing society, remains a good one.

[MSTRS:Me]

It's beyond egotistically arrogant for a site riding mentor to advise learners to actively break the law.

Utter crap!!
I'm not there to enforce laws. I'm there to advise individuals, who want it, on how to ride safely.

[superman]

MSTRS you are a GC.

I will most probably then ride through Pakuranga etc up the east side of Auckland till Sylvia Park. Then find myself Great South Road and get to uni that way. I imagine being a biker that lights don't become as much of a slow down as they do to drivers since you can just pop to the front of the lights each time they go red. Plus you still get the traffic filtering experience when this happens for my future motorway expeditions.

Yay for Auckland traffic, bring those bloody rail lines in Mr. Brown! And make the train cost cheaper than driving a car this time... But still more expensive than for a motorbike

Then Auckland will have a lot more bikers and be better off because of it.

[MSTRS:Me]

MSTRS you are a GC.

I will most probably then ride through Pakuranga etc up the east side of Auckland till Sylvia Park. Then find myself Great South Road and get to uni that way. I imagine being a biker that lights don't become as much of a slow down as they do to drivers since you can just pop to the front of the lights each time they go red. Plus you still get the traffic filtering experience when this happens for my future motorway expeditions.

Yay for Auckland traffic, bring those bloody rail lines in Mr. Brown! And make the train cost cheaper than driving a car this time... But still more expensive than for a motorbike

Then Auckland will have a lot more bikers and be better off because of it.

Good man.
Since I don't know you, or your riding ability, I'll refrain from advising you personally on lane splitting. In general terms, for newbies, I'd say Don't.

[superman]

I'm in no hurry to lane split.

And I'm hoping that when I make my timetable for uni next year to avoid peak hour times so that I will never feel the need to filter. At least not for a while.

I always pulled as far to the center when I saw a bike splitting behind me, even before I even considered becoming a biker. Other cars seem to move closer to the car next to them to try and crush the biker!

Obviously pure jealousy for wishing to get through the traffic and the emasculation gets to some drivers quite terribly.

[imdying]

I advise (fuck) new riders (fuck) to...

...break the law so they're safer riding where they shouldn't be, rather than advising them follow the law and avoid riding where it isn't safe for them to do so legally. An example of which is:

In short, avoid motorways, and heavily trafficked 100kph roads, if possible. If not, ride at the traffic speed.

"If not"!? Of course it's possible, just like it is possible to obey the law when you haven't got a license at all. What you advise is no different than:

If you haven't got a license, avoid areas likely to be policed, if possible. If not, ride sensibly and hope you don't get nicked.

I'm so glad we have mentors like you who are able to tell us which laws we should and shouldn't follow, and under what conditions.

[MSTRS:Me]

In case it escaped your attention, the road code is there to teach the road rules, traffic cops are there to teach the error of ones ways in the legal sense, and mentors are there to help someone who wants assistance with some part of their riding.
Where newbies are concerned, I (me personally, I can't speak for other mentors) will always help them to learn riding practices that will help them to remain as safe as possible on the roads.

[imdying]

Where newbies are concerned, I (me personally, I can't speak for other mentors) will always help them to learn riding practices that will help them to remain as safe as possible on the roads.

And the law be damned, regardless of whether they would be safer or not simply by following the law... gotcha

[MSTRS:Me]

It really is a waste of time 'debating' this with you...
It is not safe practice to ride significantly slower than the traffic flow. Which is what this STUPID condition insists on. If the situation can't be avoided, leaving a choice of breaking this condition or not, the safer option is the one I'd advise. Safety is the desired outcome, and the end justifies the means.
You will have noticed (well, I hope so) that I don't condone ignoring laws willynilly...just this one.

[imdying]

As I said previously...

I'm so glad we have mentors like you who are able to tell us which laws we should and shouldn't follow, and under what conditions.

[yungatart]

As I recall it, when those 5 learner rider conditions were brought in, the open road speed limit of the day was 80 kph. 10 kph was then a reasonable speed differential. However TPTB increased the open road limit, and some numpty (actually a whole parliament of numpties) forgot about the poor little learner motorcyclist now facing a 30 kph speed differential.

Dangerous? You bet!
Stupid? Ditto!

Would I obey it, or advise anyone else to? Hell. no!

Imdying and P. Dath grow a brain...even one between you would be helpful!