Invaluable info: by a REAL expert rider

[Oscar]

Strange. I'm jolly sure I replied to this earlier. It seems to ahve disappeared. Oh well



I think the weight distribution thing is the reason for the "just enough throttle to keep the bike balanced and under power" approach

But there is an alternative, as described by Mr Twosmoker. Brake all the way in and hammer it from the apex. All on or all off.

Racers use it, can't say I'm too keen to try on the road.

But that may just prove that I'm a conservative fuddy duddy.

Gravel uses the same thing - brake all the way in , skid (for me, fall off about this point), and full hammer to straighten up and power out.

Dunno. Wish Mr Bykeycop would comment. Those guys would know the best and safest way if anyone would.

I use that technique on gravel - brake in a straight line (on my XR400, you could get the back wheel lifting off on dry surfaces), turn/slide and gas it. Some guys use the speedway version - hit the back brake and chuck it sideways into the apex, it's more fun, but I don't think it's any faster, though.

[Motu]

Re the bike slowing in corners - you can feel this on a small bike,the bike will actualy slow down as you go through the corner...on my C50 I got to feel every slightlest thing that would slow it down...kinda like all those hills you find on a flat road when on a push bike.

I've ridden dirt bikes on the road for over 30 yrs,so I guess that's kinda influenced my riding somewhat - off road (when I could ride fast) it was overbraking to the point of rear wheel chatter and hop,slide and turn as Oscar says and nail it,never letting that rear wheel hook up.So on the road I chop down a gear and toss it in late,then try to get back on the gas as soon as,but it's only just not off throttle....pick it up a little at a time and feed it in,keeping it all in balance.If you don't ride very fast you have time for little daliances in the corners....did I leave the soldering iron on?.....oops,miss the possum....more throttle.....I think I'll weed around the tomatoes when I get back home.....now hard on the gas as we pick the bike up and go!

[Oscar]

Re the bike slowing in corners - you can feel this on a small bike,the bike will actualy slow down as you go through the corner...on my C50 I got to feel every slightlest thing that would slow it down...kinda like all those hills you find on a flat road when on a push bike.

I've ridden dirt bikes on the road for over 30 yrs,so I guess that's kinda influenced my riding somewhat - off road (when I could ride fast) it was overbraking to the point of rear wheel chatter and hop,slide and turn as Oscar says and nail it,never letting that rear wheel hook up.So on the road I chop down a gear and toss it in late,then try to get back on the gas as soon as,but it's only just not off throttle....pick it up a little at a time and feed it in,keeping it all in balance.If you don't ride very fast you have time for little daliances in the corners....did I leave the soldering iron on?.....oops,miss the possum....more throttle.....I think I'll weed around the tomatoes when I get back home.....now hard on the gas as we pick the bike up and go!

I feckin' love riding fast on gravel.
There's a series of corners on Waitatuna Valley Road (between Te Uku and Te Pahu), that are perfect. About six "s" bends all with camber changes, so you're sliding up or down as well as sideways...

My XR400 was perfect, the LC4 is still abit of handful.

[XP@]

I often don't follow two types of rider...

the point and squirt, who I don't seem to follow for long cos i try and keep smooth as and end up passing them cos they messed up whilst concentrating on taking the corner as fast as possible and forgot they were on the road.

The other type of rider is the ultra smooth who has the air of ultimate control... they leave me for dust...

Short of joining the cops, how do i become one of the ultra smooth?
Sounds like reading mike waite's advice I would stand a chance. but by trying to race on the road i will be eating my own dust.

[Oscar]

I often don't follow two types of rider...

the point and squirt, who I don't seem to follow for long cos i try and keep smooth as and end up passing them cos they messed up whilst concentrating on taking the corner as fast as possible and forgot they were on the road.

The other type of rider is the ultra smooth who has the air of ultimate control... they leave me for dust...

Short of joining the cops, how do i become one of the ultra smooth?
Sounds like reading mike waite's advice I would stand a chance. but by trying to race on the road i will be eating my own dust.

As an ex-dirty racer, when I ride on the road, I'm always banging it down too many gears when cornering. Because it's so busy in the corner I figure I must be going fast. I find if I concentrate on leaving it in a higher gear when cornering, it's smoother and faster.

[Motu]

I feckin' love riding fast on gravel.
There's a series of corners on Waitatuna Valley Road (between Te Uku and Te Pahu), that are perfect. About six "s" bends all with camber changes, so you're sliding up or down as well as sideways...

My XR400 was perfect, the LC4 is still abit of handful.

I think I know those corners,I used to straighten them out on the XLV,it would get a few millimetres of air time as it launched off the camber,then come down like it had done a 3 metre jump - that bike reminded me of the hippo's doing the Dance of the Hours on Fantasia.With light weight and zappy 2 stroke power the DT230 is like a kitten on a polished floor on gravel.

[Oscar]

I think I know those corners,I used to straighten them out on the XLV,it would get a few millimetres of air time as it launched off the camber,then come down like it had done a 3 metre jump - that bike reminded me of the hippo's doing the Dance of the Hours on Fantasia.With light weight and zappy 2 stroke power the DT230 is like a kitten on a polished floor on gravel.

Hutch and I were thinking about a day ride to Marakopa - wanna come?

[Motu]

Hutch and I were thinking about a day ride to Marakopa - wanna come?

Just done the shift this weekend (phew!) but ''MY'' shed is full of house stuff,once I claim it as my own the bikes will be based at Huntly and I'll be into riding my territory...Marakopa sound like where I need to go.

[Oscar]

Just done the shift this weekend (phew!) but ''MY'' shed is full of house stuff,once I claim it as my own the bikes will be based at Huntly and I'll be into riding my territory...Marakopa sound like where I need to go.

This Saturday or Next?
We could met at Ngaruawahia and go down the Waingaro Road...

[Oscar]

Just done the shift this weekend (phew!) but ''MY'' shed is full of house stuff,once I claim it as my own the bikes will be based at Huntly and I'll be into riding my territory...Marakopa sound like where I need to go.

Jeez Motu, this is looking like an old fashion thread hijacking...






Let's take it to Havana

[Motu]

Jeez Motu, this is looking like an old fashion thread hijacking...






Let's take it to Havana

Yeah,wish my work 'puter would post images....I'm gunna be spending the next few weekends claiming ''MY'' space (a single car garage,but I've put up with smaller - painted the walls and floor,got a floor anchor and alarm so the bikes stay mine in brown town) I might make a couple of destressing last rides north seeing as the bikes are still in Auckland.

Hey,I'm staying on topic man - what do you think of Kenny's corner entry here?

[Oscar]

Hey,I'm staying on topic man - what do you think of Kenny's corner entry here?

The big wuss coulda got lower...

[vifferman]

Interesting point here is you actually have to accellerate to maintain speed. Because with constant accelleration in a bend you will drop speed, traction and contact point distance... seen but do not understand the formula. but basically if you try mantain the same throttle your speed will drop therefore you have to accellerate to stay the same speed.

One reason for this is that with the bike leaned over, the effective rolling radius of the tyre is reduced (think about it....).

[Oscar]

One reason for this is that with the bike leaned over, the effective rolling radius of the tyre is reduced (think about it....).

Um, with a smaller radius (and everything else being equal), the gearing would be higher, not lower.

The probable reason is that you're either in a lower gear and/or you have the gyroscopic force of the turn (i.e. the mass of the bike wants to continue in a straight line) creating drag...

[Ixion]

Um, with a smaller radius (and everything else being equal), the gearing would be higher, not lower.

The probable reason is that you're either in a lower gear and/or you have the gyroscopic force of the turn (i.e. the mass of the bike wants to continue in a straight line) creating drag...

With the engine running at a constant speed (and thus the tyre turning at a constant speed) if you reduce the effective diameter of the tyre you will go fewer yards per minute. Same no of revolutions, but less distance per revolution.

So in order to maintain a constant bike speed you will have to increase the revolutions at the tyre which will usually mean accelerating.

But also the leaning tyre forms a conic section so it will roll left or right (which is actually what makes you go round the corner). That introduces a horizontal vector in addition to the original two (down and forward). That means you have to supply more energy to keep the same speed on the forward vector. (which I think is a fancy way of saying that it creates drag, as you said more simply. I just like using fancy words like vector.)