Cyclist accidents v motorcycle accidents

[Katman]

Cyclists are doing it, so why can't we?

What exactly are cyclists doing? Are they pushing for new legislation to protect them from other road users or are they taking a close look at their own actions and trying to figure out how they can best protect themselves from other road users?

The talk from TPTB - is it about making new legislation to protect cyclists or is it about making legislation to impose new restrictions on cyclists?

[shrub]

What exactly are cyclists doing? Are they pushing for new legislation to protect them from other road users or are they taking a close look at their own actions and trying to figure out how they can best protect themselves from other road users?

The talk from TPTB - is it about making new legislation to protect cyclists or is it about making legislation to impose new restrictions on cyclists?

If they sit back passively the way we do, they will simply face a whole pile of new rules, but they're not. Check this out: http://can.org.nz/article/take-actio...ur-roads-safer

They're being proactive and as well as pushing for stuff like lower speed zones, funding of cycle skills training, stricter licensing and testing of drivers, better enforcement of road rules, compulsory third party insurance, and increased funding of cycleways; they're protesting and putting together promotional material and a video pushing for a change in driver attitude and awareness.

if you look at the stuff they want, most of it is stuff we could benefit from, so why are we sitting back and doing nothing?

[Katman]

if you look at the stuff they want, most of it is stuff we could benefit from, so why are we sitting back and doing nothing?

Hey, I've already got enough on my plate here.

[mashman]

if you look at the stuff they want, most of it is stuff we could benefit from, so why are we sitting back and doing nothing?

Families, jobs, lives etc... To tackle the professionals, yes those full-time politician types, you need lots of time and/or not care about the fallout from your actions. You'd be going up against an institution FULL of fork tongued professionals, no easy task for a 1 wo/man band... No easy task to organise the "conversation" either, considering our geography and the demands of our lives.

I for one would happily walk into the Beehive TODAY to discuss some of the things I have on my mind, but what's on my mind may not be at the forefront of yours (especially with the "them" and "us" attitude that's kicking around). We need to stick to a single issue, make an appointment or 7 and turn up with about 20 people who have the FULL understanding of what the "proposal" is... Again, no easy task given our individualityness...

However, ACC is something that every worker pays. Every worker is already subsidising another group in some form or another FACT etc... Could that issue galvanise the fractured road user groups? I think so

[MarkH]

What exactly are cyclists doing? Are they pushing for new legislation to protect them from other road users or are they taking a close look at their own actions and trying to figure out how they can best protect themselves from other road users?

The talk from TPTB - is it about making new legislation to protect cyclists or is it about making legislation to impose new restrictions on cyclists?

It should be both for each question, just like motorcyclists - we would be safer if car drivers were less retarded and also if we were better at avoiding trouble.

The Tamaki drive cyclist death could have been avoided by the rider if she hadn't positioned herself where she did on the road, but it also could have been avoided if the idiot in the car had simply checked his wing mirror before opening the door.

The 3 deaths in Morrinsville could only have been avoided by the cyclists if they had stayed at home, but it could have VERY easily been avoided by the car driver if the stupid bitch had been driving sensibly and kept to her own side of the road.

Sometimes shit happens, but in almost every case one or more parties to the incident could have done things differently to avoid it happening. I can accept that while riding a situation may occur where there is nothing that I can do to avoid an accident, but it is still worth my while to pay attention to what is happening around me so that I can avoid the avoidable.

Roads are not formed just for motorcyclists and vehicle users, others pay their dues to use them also rates ect, when following a vehicle bike or other it is your responsibilty to ensure you give enough room until you can safely pass....Alas most just barge on through..very common today me me me !!!!

Which roads are paid for out of rates? People that use petrol pay a bunch of money every time in road tax, cyclists don't. I never minded cyclists not being charged an ACC levy despite their risks until ACC got in motorcyclists faces bitching about how we should pay our share - user pays etc. Why should motorcyclists pay any more than any one else? ACC isn't a user pays system! Cyclists don't pay, recreational sports players don't pay, pedestrians don't pay, home DIYers don't pay - why the fuck is it so essential that motorcyclists pay more than others?

My solution:
Raise tax by 1 or 2 % and drop the ACC levy from vehicle registrations. Then everyone pays - including cyclists & rugby players & horse riders & jet skiers & home handymen etc. Most accidents happen around the home, let everyone that lives in a home contribute to ACC!

[steve_t]

My solution:
Raise tax by 1 or 2 % and drop the ACC levy from vehicle registrations. Then everyone pays - including cyclists & rugby players & horse riders & jet skiers & home handymen etc. Most accidents happen around the home, let everyone that lives in a home contribute to ACC!

Income tax? What about non-earners? or GST again?

[MSTRS:Me]

ACC on Gst for all non-vehicle accidents.
ACC on petrol for all vehicle accidents. On/off road, boats, microlights...you get the picture.

[jasonu]

and the media is filled with articles about what needs to be done and what a terrible tragedy is - roads and roading design have come under close scrutiny and driver behaviour is being roundly condemned, and on the cycling organisations websites are calls for driver licensing to be tested every 10 years, more cycle lanes, higher penalties for car drivers causing crashes with cyclists etc. Cyclists are up in arms over it.

But when motorcyclists die on the road, motorcyclists get the blame, especially from other motorcyclists.

We're so pc that we're terrified to say "hey, driver behaviour and road conditions are costing us our lives". No, instead we say "yes, it's all our fault and we promise to try harder next time and we're dreadfully sorry and it won't happen again".

Sure, most crashes are preventable by the rider concerned, but then so are most pushbike crashes, and the cycling bodies accept that. The difference is that instead of cyclists trying to be even more defensive and finding even more creative ways to take the blame for what is, frequently, the poor driving of other road users and poor roads, they're demanding that other people also change their behaviour. Take the chick who swerved around an opening car door and got run over by a truck.

If she had been a motorcyclist she would have been blamed for not knowing the car door was going to be opened, for not riding on the footpath, for not braking instead of going around or for not hitting the door in preference to being run over by the truck. Instead the cycling community have demanded the road get changed and condemned car drivers who don't look in their mirrors before they open their doors.

And yes, i am expecting to be attacked over this thread because i am holding a red flag to the pc set, and yes i know that the only person i can directly influence over my safety is me, but i'm also sick of putting up with crap behaviour from other road users that puts me in danger while us motorcyclists bend over and take it. If it's ok for people on pushbikes to stand up and demand change, i think it's ok for us to do the same.

Or should we just accept that cyclists have more balls than us?

well said!!!!!

[chasio]

ACC on Gst for all non-vehicle accidents.
ACC on petrol for all vehicle accidents. On/off road, boats, microlights...you get the picture.

If you stand for parliament, I'll vote for you.

Now, stop making sense!

[mashman]

Income tax? What about non-earners? or GST again?

I wouldn't go income tax, i'd go earners account (removes levy off fuel and rego). Non-earners pay nuffink already, so they're moot to the argument? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO more on GST.

[Drunken Monkey]

Fuck the lot of them. They should learn to obey the road rules and pay for their past time like the rest of us.

Go back to sleep, Noel.

[steve_t]

ACC on Gst for all non-vehicle accidents.
ACC on petrol for all vehicle accidents. On/off road, boats, microlights...you get the picture.

I wouldn't go income tax, i'd go earners account (removes levy off fuel and rego). Non-earners pay nuffink already, so they're moot to the argument? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO more on GST.

Hmmm... one says move ACC levies to GST and petrol, and another says don't. No wonder politicians don't get anything achieved

[mashman]

Hmmm... one says move ACC levies to GST and petrol, and another says don't. No wonder politicians don't get anything achieved

Yet we both probably have very good reasons for our points of view. As mentioned in my previous "rant". If myself, MSTRS, Shrub, Katman etc... can't afford the time or cost of meeting in a central location to discuss the issue, then the politicians will continue to be non-achievers... we don't all have subsidised travel

[Drunken Monkey]

How many noticed in the clip on Campell exactly where that accident occured that there was a Cycle only lane on the footpath, which had she used this instead of the road her life may have been saved.

The 'cycle lane' on the footpath is for children and dawdlers. Cyclists have every right to the road afforded to others.

[Scuba_Steve]

The 'cycle lane' on the footpath is for children and dawdlers. Cyclists have every right to the road afforded to others.

and they should have every right to pay for it too, god knows I am for every single one of my road going vehicles. If they want to use the road they should pay for it like every other user especially if they expect "special" treatment like "bike lanes" where's our motorbike only lanes???