Cyclist accidents v motorcycle accidents

[Kiwi Graham:Me]

I think Noel was saying that a lot of cyclists seem to have an arrogant attitude - more so than motorcyclists. Cyclists are more likely to just ride through a red light whereas a motorcyclist will filter to the front and wait for the green (knowing he/she can leave the cars behind easily). Cyclists will ride 2 abreast while travelling at 30kph in a 100kph zone - motorcyclists tend to ride 100 - 110 in the 100 zone and don't have cars coming up behind them with a 70-80kph speed differential.

I am wondering if there is a bicycle version of katman out there warning the other bicyclists that show the suicidal arrogance that they need to change their attitude?

So out and about in the cage with the family today and what did I see???
The tour de France blitzing 4-5 abreast through any red lights they come across, arrogantly oblivious to other road users be they cars, trucks, buses or pedestrians (some of the red lights were ped crossings). Was even at a Santa parade today, roads closed, parade coming down the street, bands playing etc but what is heading up the street?? a lycra clad pair of fuck who cares inches of the kids waiting to see Santa, how I wished I had a broom handle handy.

[Katman]

So out and about in the cage with the family today and what did I see???
The tour de France blitzing 4-5 abreast through any red lights they come across, arrogantly oblivious to other road users be they cars, trucks, buses or pedestrians (some of the red lights were ped crossings). Was even at a Santa parade today, roads closed, parade coming down the street, bands playing etc but what is heading up the street?? a lycra clad pair of fuck who cares inches of the kids waiting to see Santa, how I wished I had a broom handle handy.

How do you think car drivers who have the misfortune to find themselves on the Coro Loop on a GP weekend feel?

[Fatt Max]

Reckon they should form an action group....

Cycles United Needing Tougher Safety,

Or C.U.N.....you can do the rest

[ynot slow]

You're kidding right? U want the already nanny state to tell people that if they go out for a run, they're not allowed to listen to music?? Can you imagine the outcry? I guess they'd also have to ban bluetooth headsets and earplugs for motorcyclists. They'd have to limit volumes for car stereos. They'd have to remove some of the sound proofing from flash european cars. The ban on phones while driving was because it meant people weren't paying attention not because the phones were too loud.
The bloody simple solution of banning iPods etc seems much akin to saying we'll fix the issue of people dying on motorbikes by banning motorbikes. Not gonna happen

Nope just suggesting the coroner has indicated noise may have been the cause of deaths for some.

Define the fact that with big bore and subs,some guys can't hear an ambo or fire engine behind them,so in that respect noise can be a major issue.

Used ipod as an example,when you walk down the street in any city,how often does a person with ipod on(and usually we can hear it)walk whilst texting,head down or so and walk into people or worse straight onto the road,without looking,failing that wait outside any highschool and watch the students behaviour.

[myvice]

wait outside any highschool and watch the students .

Not allowed to, something about a court order…

[Drunken Monkey]

Hmm, such arrogance. You're not a cyclist per chance are you?
That's the shit that gets them killed - thinking their shit don't stink, that they own the road, the road rules don't apply to them and that they're always right.
Dead right.

Yes, I am a cyclist. And a pedestrian. And a car driver. And a motorcyclist. And, more recently, a truck driver.

You and scuba steve are the arrogant ones, a right pair of utter ignorant twats who are unable to see how different types of road users affect each other.

And for the record:
No, I do not wear lycra, I wear cotton mountain biking shorts.
I never ride 2 abreast, and I don't believe cyclists should be allowed to do that.

[Kiwi Graham:Me]

How do you think car drivers who have the misfortune to find themselves on the Coro Loop on a GP weekend feel?

I agree Steve, but a little different being in the smoke with heaps of traffic, junctions and pedestrians around.

[Scuba_Steve]

Yes, I am a cyclist. And a pedestrian. And a car driver. And a motorcyclist. And, more recently, a truck driver.

You and scuba steve are the arrogant ones, a right pair of utter ignorant twats who are unable to see how different types of road users affect each other.

And for the record:
No, I do not wear lycra, I wear cotton mountain biking shorts.
I never ride 2 abreast, and I don't believe cyclists should be allowed to do that.

then why are you getting all agro? I have made a point of separating the "lycra brigade" from other cyclists I thought I had made that clear.

as for ignorant? I think you need to take off those rose coloured glasses.

[mashman]

Yes, I am a cyclist. And a pedestrian. And a car driver. And a motorcyclist. And, more recently, a truck driver.

also a worker? Would you prefer to pay a single ACC levy? Have 9.9c/l off the value of petrol (removal of ACC levy on fuel)? Remove ACC Levy from vehicle registration payment? Catches everyone that isn't paying at the moment. But in return you know exactly what the guy next door is paying, same as the guy at the other end of the country.

You can do all of that if you join the road account to the worker account and share the cost amongst those who are already sharing the cost. This makes perfect sense to me. You'll still collect the same amount of money, but from 1 place and it covers everyone for everything.

[cheshirecat]

also a worker? Would you prefer to pay a single ACC levy? Have 9.9c/l off the value of petrol (removal of ACC levy on fuel)? Remove ACC Levy from vehicle registration payment? Catches everyone that isn't paying at the moment. But in return you know exactly what the guy next door is paying, same as the guy at the other end of the country.

You can do all of that if you join the road account to the worker account and share the cost amongst those who are already sharing the cost. This makes perfect sense to me. You'll still collect the same amount of money, but from 1 place and it covers everyone for everything.

That's hopelessly too good an idea. If that was accepted then treasury would have a reduced number of revenue streams to control - sorry balance.

[steve_t]

also a worker? Would you prefer to pay a single ACC levy? Have 9.9c/l off the value of petrol (removal of ACC levy on fuel)? Remove ACC Levy from vehicle registration payment? Catches everyone that isn't paying at the moment. But in return you know exactly what the guy next door is paying, same as the guy at the other end of the country.

You can do all of that if you join the road account to the worker account and share the cost amongst those who are already sharing the cost. This makes perfect sense to me. You'll still collect the same amount of money, but from 1 place and it covers everyone for everything.

So, basically, abolish all ACC levies and pay for ACC out of raised income tax levels? Obviously, a percentage of income tax would need to be attributed to ACC but for all intents and purposes, it'll just be more income tax. I guess it'd be easier to implement

[mashman]

That's hopelessly too good an idea. If that was accepted then treasury would have a reduced number of revenue streams to control - sorry balance.

Exactly. It will lower administration costs too. And it's the one revenue stream you can pretty much guarantee...

So, basically, abolish all ACC levies and pay for ACC out of raised income tax levels? Obviously, a percentage of income tax would need to be attributed to ACC but for all intents and purposes, it'll just be more income tax. I guess it'd be easier to implement

Contrary to what i said just above ... I'd keep the ACC Levy component where it is at the moment, because there is a maximum level of cover "attached". Income tax is for a myriad of other things, ACC has a specific task to perform. That's why I wouldn't put it on income-tax. Doesn't mean it isn't a good idea though, but 1 thing at a time

[MarkH]

So, basically, abolish all ACC levies and pay for ACC out of raised income tax levels? Obviously, a percentage of income tax would need to be attributed to ACC but for all intents and purposes, it'll just be more income tax. I guess it'd be easier to implement

I'd prefer that - at the moment we pay a certain amount of income tax + 15% GST + ACC levy on rego + ACC levy on petrol + import duty on some imports + excise tax on alcohol + any other way the government can think of to take money off us. We pay road tax on the petrol, then they want us to pay to use a toll road. I think that it must often be inefficient to collect money in so many different ways. If we had to pay $300 more each year in tax, but the ACC levy was removed from the rego then we would be no poorer - I can't see a negative. Sure someone with a car and 2 motorbikes would pay less, but someone with no car that plays rugby would pay more.

When the gummint announced the plan to increase ACC levies for motorcycles and gave their reasons I came across non-bikers saying "oh yeah, that's only fair - user pays". This pissed me off because I just don't see ACC successfully getting all users to pay fairly in accordance to their risk and ACC was set up to be a no fault scheme anyway. If they are only interested in fairness then can we sue the 'at fault' party after and accident? ACC was created to forego blame and just help those that needed it - we didn't want the USA method of everyone suing each other. Now they want to make it an insurance scheme, I don't approve!

If the home handyman isn't charged an ACC levy on a circular saw then why should I pay heaps when I register a motorcycle? User pays, my arse!

[JudaBaker]

also a worker? Would you prefer to pay a single ACC levy? Have 9.9c/l off the value of petrol (removal of ACC levy on fuel)? Remove ACC Levy from vehicle registration payment? Catches everyone that isn't paying at the moment. But in return you know exactly what the guy next door is paying, same as the guy at the other end of the country.

You can do all of that if you join the road account to the worker account and share the cost amongst those who are already sharing the cost. This makes perfect sense to me. You'll still collect the same amount of money, but from 1 place and it covers everyone for everything.

Where do I sign up? Technically there's already equal right to claim, so why not equal contribution? How it should be really.

[yungatart]

Nope just suggesting the coroner has indicated noise may have been the cause of deaths for some.

Define the fact that with big bore and subs,some guys can't hear an ambo or fire engine behind them,so in that respect noise can be a major issue.

I have been in ambulances on many occasions, lights flashing, sirens blaring, coming up behind many a motorist (cars and motorcycles) who fail to notice what is behind them .They don't all have stereos on full noise...most of them just don't use their mirrors. Even at night, people don't see the lights!

On another note, came up behind two cyclists on the Piecock Hill last weekend. Visibility was very low due to fog and low cloud. No flashy lights, no hi-vis vests, I only noticed them because my perpiheral vision caught an odd movement that didn't "fit". 3 other people in the vehicle with me did NOT see them...lucky for them, I did!