SMIDSY - is there such a thing?

[StoneY]

Or should we demand that every motorcyclist engages in intensive training when they get their licenses?

This gets my vote
I learned from 'years' of riding...29 years in fact both on and off road (not in that order either)

Yet recently at a Red Baron Extravanganza held at Taupo racetrack I learned a little of how much I still don't know - FUCKING HEAPS!

Riding is in itself a certain level of education based on experience, and that is also only as good as the nature and attitude of the rider.

Learning 'riding technology' is yet again a different level of knowledge and ability opening up, and a competent professional teacher makes a WORLD of difference.

I still remember a mate of mine trying to convince me to counter steer when I had already held my full license for 3 years.... same applied when I listened into the braking lesson Andrew Templeton of Raodsafe was teaching.... was hard to believe what I was being told, but once I tried it, WOW! Skills!!!!

Oh and 3 months later that very lesson I listened into at Taupo saved my Super Duke from needing a new front end (and looked real cool with the back wheel a meter in the air and a Toyaota Corolla 3 inches in front of my wheel)

Training, it works

[MSTRS:Me]

Yes, let's take responsibility for ourselves - many of us already do, but instead of waiting till all of us are riding faultlessly, let's start pushing for government action to reduce SMIDSY events in the same way they are so keen to reduce speeding.

I know it's all very PC to say we can't demand change from anyone else until we've all got our act together, but let's get real - that will NEVER happen, so why wait?

+1. Why should 'we' always be the apologists for car drivers who don't see a reason to be bothered taking more care? Pared down to it's simplest form, we have to take all the responsibility and 'they' don't.
What is so wrong about insisting TPTB do something towards fixing this?

[shrub]

Training, it works

bloody oath, I try and get some training every year. Do you think driving a car needs training? Is driving a car so much easier that you and I benefit from training after decades of riding, yet car drivers get their license and never need a second more training?

[shrub]

+1. Why should 'we' always be the apologists for car drivers who don't see a reason to be bothered taking more care? Pared down to it's simplest form, we have to take all the responsibility and 'they' don't.
What is so wrong about insisting TPTB do something towards fixing this?

Precisely. What is wrong with demanding ALL road users lift their game? Or are car drivers somehow exempt from taking responsibility for their skills because they're not as vulnerable? If I buy a Volvo can I drive like a dickhead?

I'm sick of bikers being expected to wring their hands apologetically and say "sorry sir, we will try harder to be better riders, in the mean time drive as badly as you like and you hitting me was my fault for not knowing you were going to do a U turn without indicating".

[hellokitty]

Then I suggest they learn in a fucking hurry.

Yes, you have to assume that you are invisible and that everyone is a dickhead. I learnt this the hard way when an old lady drove into me and knocked me off my bike.

[onearmedbandit]

I believe, as others here do, that all road users in NZ need more defensive training. And I don't believe the responsibility should be all ours. But my brother told me something many many years ago, I would've been about 12yrs old, and it's stuck with me throughout the rest of my life.

Simply put, it's 'look after number one mate, because no one else will'. And that's how I lead my life. It would be great if I didn't have to, if I could 100% rely on others to do the right thing. But I can't, no matter how much money is spent, no matter how much training is given to others, no matter what, I will always have to take responsibility for my safety or well-being.

[hellokitty]

Precisely. What is wrong with demanding ALL road users lift their game? Or are car drivers somehow exempt from taking responsibility for their skills because they're not as vulnerable? If I buy a Volvo can I drive like a dickhead?

I'm sick of bikers being expected to wring their hands apologetically and say "sorry sir, we will try harder to be better riders, in the mean time drive as badly as you like and you hitting me was my fault for not knowing you were going to do a U turn without indicating".

eveyone on the road should lift their game but the reality is that if it doesn't affect them (cagers) then they don't care. A prime example is a guy I know that dives a landrover, changes lanes when he wants and expects people to get out the way because he is bigger therefore he wins. It doesn't matter who is right......

[Pascal]

I'm sick of bikers being expected to wring their hands apologetically and say "sorry sir, we will try harder to be better riders, in the mean time drive as badly as you like and you hitting me was my fault for not knowing you were going to do a U turn without indicating".

Okay. You are the most vocal on these boards about it. So what are you doing to get this started? Do you want to arrange a meet and a greet and planning session for people who want to work towards this?

[shrub]

eveyone on the road should lift their game but the reality is that if it doesn't affect them (cagers) then they don't care. A prime example is a guy I know that dives a landrover, changes lanes when he wants and expects people to get out the way because he is bigger therefore he wins. It doesn't matter who is right......

So make it affect them and use the same techniques we use to make people want to buy McDonalds to change their attitudes.

But if he hits someone (which he will), and if it's a motorcyclist this is what will (or should) happen:

1. He'll be charged with careless driving causing injury, lose his license and pay a big fine.
2. He will be liable for damages, plus reperation. When my son was skittled the chick who hit him paid $500.00 reperation
3. He will potentially have to live with having killed someone.

now tell me what is "winning" about the above scenario?

[MSTRS:Me]

I'm sick of bikers being expected to wring their hands apologetically and say "sorry sir, we will try harder to be better riders, in the mean time drive as badly as you like and you hitting me was my fault for not knowing you were going to do a U turn without indicating".

The more we do this, the less reason Mr/s Cager has to bother themselves. Plus, I can see it encouraging (more of) them to actively fail to avoid us, even if we are seen and noted, because if bikers 'always' get out of their way then that type of cager will expect it.

[shrub]

Okay. You are the most vocal on these boards about it. So what are you doing to get this started? Do you want to arrange a meet and a greet and planning session for people who want to work towards this?

Simple: MAG-NZ

[MSTRS:Me]

eveyone on the road should lift their game but the reality is that if it doesn't affect them (cagers) then they don't care. A prime example is a guy I know that dives a landrover, changes lanes when he wants and expects people to get out the way because he is bigger therefore he wins. It doesn't matter who is right......

People like that possibly get away with it for years. In which case, where's the disincentive?
Sooner or later, they will cause a crash. Part of their sentence should be they must ride a motorcycle for a minimum of 2 years before they are allowed back in a car (a small one, to continue hammering in the lesson...)

[Pascal]

Simple: MAG-NZ

Ok, who from MAG do those of us who want to help with this get in touch with?

What I'm getting at is - the last two / three weeks has seen a lot of discussion on this topic, but no discernable action thus far. And while it's all well and good saying "This needs to happen" on an internet forum, it's basically perpetual motion. That desire to do something needs to be translated into real, concrete action.

So I'm assuming you've raised it with MAG with your proposed ideas. Yes?

[Katman]

Precisely. What is wrong with demanding ALL road users lift their game?

There's nothing wrong with it.

But while you're busy 'demanding' things, motorcyclists will continue to be needlessly killed or maimed.

If we start looking at ourselves, change can be effected immediately.

[bogan]

Ok, who from MAG do those of us who want to help with this get in touch with?

What I'm getting at is - the last two / three weeks has seen a lot of discussion on this topic, but no discernable action thus far. And while it's all well and good saying "This needs to happen" on an internet forum, it's basically perpetual motion. That desire to do something needs to be translated into real, concrete action.

So I'm assuming you've raised it with MAG with your proposed ideas. Yes?

we have a member forum on our site, there is a lot going on at the moment so some things will fall through the cracks or be put in the too hard for now basket, but the more active members we got, the less will be missed out

There's nothing wrong with it.

But while you're busy 'demanding' things, motorcyclists will continue to be needlessly killed or maimed.

If we start looking at ourselves, change can be effected immediately.

personally I think they should both be done. Demand more training for all, and provide voluntary training for bikers because thats our area of expertise.