Cops tailgating to try and make you speed

[JimO]

So...how would YOU suggest checks be done to see if licenced premises are selling booze to under-aged kid - ask the pub manager...??

back in my day you could buy booze from the bottlestore of the captian cook tavern in your school uniform

[XxKiTtiExX]

So...how would YOU suggest checks be done to see if licenced premises are selling booze to under-aged kid - ask the pub manager...??

I just burst out laughing

[bsasuper]

The PoPo use a speed up behind you technique to get a good radar reading of you, dont confuse this with tail gateing

[davereid]

So...how would YOU suggest checks be done to see if licenced premises are selling booze to under-aged kid - ask the pub manager...??

The police used to do it without encouraging children to break the law.

They use to randomly walk in to the pub and have a look.

The problem with this approach, is it means the policeman has to judge the age of patrons.

And that's hard.

[Spearfish]

The police used to do it without encouraging children to break the law.

They use to randomly walk in to the pub and have a look.

The problem with this approach, is it means the policeman has to judge the age of patrons.

And that's hard.

Perhaps with the amount of money and human resources poured into Manakau by the police top brass there isn't the man power left around the rest of the country?

[Dave Lobster]

Perhaps with the amount of money and human resources poured into Manakau by the police top brass there isn't the man power left around the rest of the country?

They have to put the resources where the crime is though. Catching the odd pub selling to (mildly) underage girls is pretty insignificant, compared to how many manukau residents will kill their babies this christmas.

[MSTRS:Me]

The police used to do it without encouraging children to break the law.

That's where you are wrong. It is not illegal for an under-18 to be on licenced premises or to buy alcohol. But it is illegal to let them stay there, or to sell to them. The onus of legality rests entirely with the premises and staff.

[Mully Clown]

The police used to do it without encouraging children to break the law.

They use to randomly walk in to the pub and have a look.

The problem with this approach, is it means the policeman has to judge the age of patrons.

And that's hard.

This still happens on a regular basis.

[Conquiztador]

That's where you are wrong. It is not illegal for an under-18 to be on licenced premises or to buy alcohol. But it is illegal to let them stay there, or to sell to them. The onus of legality rests entirely with the premises and staff.

Under 18yo's can stay at licensed premises with their parents/caretakers but are not to consume or be sold alcohol. They will even get a stamp on their wrist saying "UNDERAGE". Last time I did this with my boys were at The Cabana in Napier when we watched These Four Walls on Labour Day w/e.

I do not have a problem with the "send an underage in and let's see if they sell him/her booze" entrapment as such. And the consequenses for the young girl/boy are minimal. An experience and a "better work story" for the under 18yo. The bar/pub/hotel knows the rules.

We have gotten sidetracked from the "tailgating" issue... 20 years ago when living in Auckland I got to know a girl through my then wife. The girl used to be a police. She had become one for all the right reasons (serve the public, help, make a difference etc.) But it almost destroyed her life as she had been asked to go "under cover" and in her naevity she had accepted. She had "infiltrated" the gang scene but it all started to spiral out of control. She had also never before used any drugs but to keep her cover had to do so. She left the police very dissillusioned and as a result was still in councelling when I met her.

My example here is clearly very much different to the "tailgating" issue. But clearly demonstrates that our police force is prepared to put their staff in risk to achieve the outcomes. I would therefore not be the slightest surprised if it was a directive given to any officer on the road to "if you see someone you think is suspicious, get up really close and see if you can get them to break the law".

[MSTRS:Me]

Under 18yo's can stay at licensed premises with their parents/caretakers but are not to consume or be sold alcohol.

Which was partly my point. Incidently, a minor can drink in a pub, if with a parent/guardian. But the parent must do the purchasing and hand the child the glass.

...I would therefore not be the slightest surprised if it was a directive given to any officer on the road to "if you see someone you think is suspicious, get up really close and see if you can get them to break the law".

More likely it is a case of 'We expect you to write x tickets. Ensure you do, and we don't care how you achieve it'

[davereid]

The police used to do it without encouraging children to break the law.

Fair enough, I didn't realise all the onus was on the pub staff, and that the kids could attempt to buy without fear of penalty.

Lets edit it to

"The police used to do it without encouraging and assisting children to set up others to break the law."

[Conquiztador]

More likely it is a case of 'We expect you to write x tickets. Ensure you do, and we don't care how you achieve it'

I honestly hope you are wrong.

[MSTRS:Me]

Fair enough, I didn't realise all the onus was on the pub staff, and that the kids could attempt to buy without fear of penalty.

Lets edit it to

"The police used to do it without encouraging and assisting children to set up others to break the law."

Yep. Even way back in the 'old days', if a cop walked in to the bar and found an under-age, the kid would be escorted off the premises. Perhaps served with a trespass notice. And probably the parents would be spoken to. That's it.

I honestly hope you are wrong.

So do I. I don't actually believe it, but it is more believeable than cops being told to break the law to encourage others to follow suit.

[steve_t]

Yep. Even way back in the 'old days', if a cop walked in to the bar and found an under-age, the kid would be escorted off the premises. Perhaps served with a trespass notice. And probably the parents would be spoken to. That's it.

But that was before...
Now it's: Up to $2000 fine for the bar staff member who served, Up to $10,000 for the Manager on Duty, and Up to $20,000 fine for the business, plus a 24 hour closure for the bar

[MSTRS:Me]

But that was before...
Now it's: Up to $2000 fine for the bar staff member who served, Up to $10,000 for the Manager on Duty, and Up to $20,000 fine for the business, plus a 24 hour closure for the bar

Yep. And still nothing for the kid...
Like the cigarette issue, businesses have been made de facto policemen, and suffer all the consequences of getting it wrong.