Read it. Pay attention.

[Katman]

So why have we bothered inventing a word for it, then?

It's the ultimate excuse.

[Dare]

accident
–noun

1. an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss; casualty; mishap: automobile accidents.
2. Law . such a happening resulting in injury that is in no way the fault of the injured person for which compensation or indemnity is legally sought.
3. any event that happens unexpectedly, without a deliberate plan or cause.

It would appear everyone is arguing over different (correct) interpretations of the same word.

"any event that happens unexpectedly, without a deliberate plan or cause."
...Seems to cover everyones view.

Surely a discussion as to road based "risk" and suitable forms of management would be more productive than being so fucking pedantic when everyone is more or less correct anyway?

Oh wait I just remembered what forum I'm on.
As you were.

My 2c, mechanical or medical failure causing a crash is pretty damn rare. Making a mistake as the result of pure human error (I don't even know what that would be, being blinded by the sun possibly) is less rare. Making a mistake as a result of lack of training or discipline (emotional clouding, "it wont happen to me", I'm invincible, road rage, etc.) is more common. I think everyone can agree to that, now what?

[98tls]

It would appear everyone is arguing over different (correct) interpretations of the same word.

"any event that happens unexpectedly, without a deliberate plan or cause."
...Seems to cover everyones view.

Surely a discussion as to road based "risk" and suitable forms of management would be more productive than being so fucking pedantic when everyone is more or less correct anyway?

Oh wait I just remembered what forum I'm on.
As you were.

My 2c, mechanical or medical failure causing a crash is pretty damn rare. Making a mistake as the result of pure human error (I don't even know what that would be, being blinded by the sun possibly) is less rare. Making a mistake as a result of lack of training or discipline (emotional clouding, "it wont happen to me", I'm invincible, road rage, etc.) is more common. I think everyone can agree to that, now what?

What about waving,lets combine the 2 most common threads and argue that,anyone ever had an off whilst waving and if so was it considered an accident

[Bonez]

What about waving,lets combine the 2 most common threads and argue that,anyone ever had an off whilst waving and if so was it considered an accident

No, but I did accidently wave once. Well I think it was only once.

[98tls]

No, but I did accidently wave once. Well I think it was only once.

Lets hope so eh.

[98tls]

Wow, agism and racism all in one nice little bundle. Kudos

Wow,in your case possibly jism.

[carver]

If I'm still in another 25 years time someone shoot me.

ok, no problem.....

[Ocean1]

It would appear everyone is arguing over different (correct) interpretations of the same word.

If that’s your understanding then I suggest you do a tad more research. There's a deal of pedantry going on, to be sure. Guilty. But the reason for my particular contribution is 'cause I'm sick of being bombarded with the pompous, ill-informed, righteously indignant diatribe from those who seem to think they’ve got some exclusive insight into How Shit Works.

Yes, most crashes have an human element. If you’ve a mind you can point to those and say “you did / didn’t do this / that, and therefore it's NOT an accident and you're a bad, bad person.” But the meanest perusal of behavioural anthropology would uncover the fact that... shock, horror, etc... Humans have remarkably little control over their routine (and therefore driving / riding) behaviour. Across the full breadth of the range of skills from rank beginner to full expert the risks each individual takes is part of them, built in, hard wired.

So diligently regurgitating the sort of anile crap that’s been foisted on us over the years by a stunningly ill informed and singularly ineffective safety culture wears fookin’ thin. Particularly as the evidence repeatedly demonstrates that it is indeed a crock of steaming excriment. And in spite of this the more strident and objectionable rantings have more in common with the louder religious preachings, in that they demand that other people need to change their wicked ways in order for all to be bliss. In a word..Fuck off.

So I’m just here to insist, again, that there is indeed such a thing as an accident. And to suggest that if anyone is desperate to minimise the risks associated with using the road then the very best thing they can do is to find a really thick book on How Shit Works, in the hope that sooner or later they’ll come to the more realistic understanding that it’s not about blame. Not even slightly.

[LBD]

in the hope that sooner or later they’ll come to the more realistic understanding that it’s not about blame. Not even slightly.

Agree with your sentiments on what is an accident, 100%, but I think in todays world blame does feature. Our system of liability, responsibility, insurance, compensation, litigation etc, ....blame has to be aportioned to those involed in an accident to make our legal/insurance/compensation system work....unlike the Govt no fault ACC system

[superman]

Wow,in your case possibly jism.

Well if you want to sit there targetting the easiest people to target then go ahead and act like your some omnipotent person because of your race and age.

Because that obviously makes you such a better driver... much less arrogant

[MSTRS:Me]

... I understand you perfectly. You propose that if it’s predictable then it’s not an accident, and as all crashes are predictable then ipso vercie: none of 'em are accidents.....(that accidents aren’t accidents if they’re predictable)...all accidents are predictable? Yes, with enough data and enough time. So we’ve got a situation, here, gentlemen: “There’s no such thing as an accident”...

Thank Christ for that. Pity it took 'enough' alcohol to open your mind...although there really are accidents sometimes

So why have we bothered inventing a word for it, then? ...

Man needs labels to (think he can) understand stuff...

No they're not and by default, no they're not. Just because you have a trend that tells you what numbers you're likely to be looking at, does not make ALL crashes predictable. It makes it an educated guess at best, sometime, somewhere, a T-Junction crash will happen. Pretty vague really and hardly predictable.

The rules of chaos say that a predictable crash may not actually happen. But would you (or anyone) consider someone who is speeding in a school zone at 8.30am Mon-Fri, and is juggling a coffee and a piece of toast, who then bowls some poor kid, to have had an 'accident'?

It would appear everyone is arguing over different (correct) interpretations of the same word.

Nail meet Head

So I’m just here to insist, again, that there is indeed such a thing as an accident.

Agreed.

My problem with the word 'accident' in terms of traffic crashes is that it seems to be used in the sense that the involved can abdicate their responsibility by calling it that. "It was an accident" suggests, not only was it unintentional (fair enough), but also "I couldn't have done anything to stop it happening". No doubt, such a situation does occur, a true accident, but generally speaking - a crash is what it is.

If accident is the wrong word to describe an unintentional, unpredictable event - then, other than Act of God (something that few would agree really exists), then please suggest a word that does cover what I and others interpret 'accident' to mean.

[Ocean1]

My problem with the word 'accident' in terms of traffic crashes is that it seems to be used in the sense that the involved can abdicate their responsibility by calling it that.

You insist on continuing to display your ignorance in the matter?

"It was an accident" suggests, not only was it unintentional

Correct.

but also "I couldn't have done anything to stop it happening".

Incorrect.

It suggests no such thing.

Check the dictionary AGAIN.

Accident means there was no intent.

That's it.

Nothing there at all about avoidability.

Nada.

Zip.



Again:

No intent = accident.
Intent = not accident.

No further corespondence will be entered into on the matter.

[swbarnett]

Agree with your sentiments on what is an accident, 100%, but I think in todays world blame does feature. Our system of liability, responsibility, insurance, compensation, litigation etc, ....blame has to be aportioned to those involed in an accident to make our legal/insurance/compensation system work....

A reason, perhaps, but there is often no need for blame. To ALWAYS attribute blame is to deny that which makes us human.

Even if we know ALL the factors involved in a given situation ahead of time (an almost impossible task in itself) we cannot quantify all of them exactly. As such we cannot be blamed for an action that could only be seen to have been causitive in hindsight.

[MarkH]

No intent = accident.
Intent = not accident.

I agree with this - the definition of accident is unintended mishap, there is nothing to say that with more care it couldn't be avoided. Almost every accident of every kind is avoidable - that doesn't make them 'not accidents'. Even accidents around the home like falling off a ladder, cutting yourself with a kitchen knife of burning yourself with the stove are all avoidable accidents, but accidents non the less.

All this arguing about the commonly accepted definition of accident being wrong just seems so silly. All that needed to be said was "most accidents are avoidable" and then this thread could be reduced to about 1/4 of the number of posts.

To summarise:
The only car crashes that are not really accidents are the ones where someone crashes on purpose. But over 99% of all accidents are avoidable.
If we can all agree on this then we can move on to more productive discussion!

[Katman]

I think what we're trying to establish here is that if '"accidents" were seen less as "accidents" we'd all start looking more closely at how we can avoid being part of an accident.