Intermittent starting problem

[swbarnett]

My wife is having a problem on her '98 600 Hornet whereby it starts fine every time at home after sitting overnight but refuses to start after stopping along the way. The strange thing is that if she sits long enough (5 or 10 mins) it starts without any issues.

When it fails to start the headlight dims as normal but NOTHING else happens, dead silent.

I thought the battery might be dying as it's a few years old (can't remember exactly how many) so I've swapped in a new one but it's still happening.

Any ideas?

[vifferman]

Dodgy starter relay? (Usually located near the battery).
Some Hondas sometimes have problems with the starter clutch, where if some component of it is worn/loose, it does exactly what you've said: light dims, current appears to flow, but the starter doesn't whir, whizz or otherwise show any signs of life.

[scumdog]

Get a Harley




Seriously, sounds like a sticking solenoid and/or a poor battery connection, possibly an earth, - does it make a 'click-click' as you try to start it?

[Laxi]

Get a Harley

you mean seeing as it wont start anyway, you might as well own a harley?

[scumdog]

you mean seeing as it wont start anyway, you might as well own a harley?

Nice try but no....

[swbarnett]

Dodgy starter relay? (Usually located near the battery).
Some Hondas sometimes have problems with the starter clutch, where if some component of it is worn/loose, it does exactly what you've said: light dims, current appears to flow, but the starter doesn't whir, whizz or otherwise show any signs of life.

Sounds like a reasonabls theory.

The question remains as to why it starts after a while if just sitting.

[swbarnett]

Seriously, sounds like a sticking solenoid and/or a poor battery connection, possibly an earth,

The battery connections are good. I'll see if I can find the earth.

- does it make a 'click-click' as you try to start it?

No click, just dead silence.

[notme]

If you can reliably track it down to temperature i.e. only does it when hot, it's likely to be things expanding and contracting with heat.

The frame will expand at a different rate to the bolts and connectors especially on large gauge wiring like the starter circuit.

Look for a loose connection and check earth points etc. This is the most likely culprit since you say the solenoid is not even clicking.

Bear in mind that it could also be electrical, so I'd suggest checking that the charging system is OK using the standard chart, it's quick and easy and only involves 3 or 4 steps if everything is working fine.

[Max Preload]

If it's a remote solenoid which I expect it is, bridge the big terminals with a hefty screwdriver to see if the starter always operates.

If it doesn't operate the starter every single time, I'd say brushes. If it does, check the solenoid resistance out.

You could also crudely load test the battery. Begin by fully charging the battery and then measure the voltage across the terminals when it's cranking (disable the ignition system so it doesn't start by removing the fuse). It shouldn't drop below about 9.6V after 15 seconds @ 20ºC. If it does, the battery is on its way out.

[notme]

If it's a remote solenoid which I expect it is, bridge the big terminals with a hefty screwdriver to see if the starter always operates.

If it doesn't operate the starter every single time, I'd say brushes. If it does, check the solenoid resistance out.

The OP has already said that there is no click, this means that the solenoid is not operating. There's not much point bridging it to check the starter - we already know the problem is at or before the solenoid.

You could also crudely load test the battery. Begin by fully charging the battery and then measure the voltage across the terminals when it's cranking (disable the ignition system so it doesn't start by removing the fuse). It shouldn't drop below about 9.6V after 15 seconds @ 20ºC. If it does, the battery is on its way out.

There's nothing wrong with this advice, but it is a subset of all the possible electrical issues that you might have. Try the detailed procedure described here, specifically step 3 "check the charging system and battery" for a more detailed idea of your bike's electrical system health.
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...shooting-steps

[Max Preload]

When it fails to start the headlight dims as normal but NOTHING else happens, dead silent.

Dims due to a load elsewhere or actually goes out leaving only the park light?

The OP has already said that there is no click, this means that the solenoid is not operating. There's not much point bridging it to check the starter - we already know the problem is at or before the solenoid.

I missed the bit about no click.

There's nothing wrong with this advice, but it is a subset of all the possible electrical issues that you might have. Try the detailed procedure described here, specifically step 3 "check the charging system and battery" for a more detailed idea of your bike's electrical system.
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...shooting-steps

I mentioned it because he said he swapped it out. Now he can check his one.

[swbarnett]

Dims due to a load elsewhere or actually goes out leaving only the park light?

Hard to be absolutely sure from sitting on the bike but I'm pretty certain it goes out. It's exactly what happens under normal starting.

[Katman]

Try replacing the earth lead.

Earth leads can, over time, build up an increased resistance which gets worse when hot. The high amperage drawn by the starter motor is then unable to travel along it.

[p.dath]

My uneducated thoughts;

Since the starter relay is failing to click, the fault must lie between the battery and (including) the relay.

So I'd try getting an electrical diagram of the bike, and grab a multimeter. When the fault is occurring, is there power on the input of the relay switch terminal? If so, the relay may be stuffed. If not, pull out the starter fuse. Is power making it to the fuse socket?

And keep going, narrowing down the tests points, until you know between which two points power is not making it. When complete, you'll have found the fault.

[scumdog]

Try replacing the earth lead.

Earth leads can, over time, build up an increased resistance which gets worse when hot. The high amperage drawn by the starter motor is then unable to travel along it.

Worth a try.
Yonk ago normajeanes Sporty had a problem - tracked down to frame end of earth strap coming away from the terminal that bolts it to the frame.
But it LOOKED o.k. because the plastic 'shrink-tube' was still holding things together but bugger-all contact being made.

Similar symptoms to yours