Buy from NZ? I tried but come on...

[Brian d marge]

Not sure if this has been said

but Mr Taylor is the link between me and ohlins , ( and comes free with knowledge)

Quasi , is the also the same ( just to use these businesses as an example )

they are my sales point,

common thread there , is service.

Now if I am sourcing commodities , overseas is always going to win as the overheads relative to our are probably less

So we can produce something that no one else can or does , or add value to the product , ( back up service , knowledge , and a christmas card )

I can either invest time in getting that knowledge in order to make an informed decision , or pay someone to locate , or service the product I have or intend to buy

I'm good, with the above ...

But some business have poor judgment on margins ,or service , they don't get any repeat custom from moi ( of course if it a cock up and all good in the end , probably get lots more repeat custom)

Stephen

[Quasievil]

I'm not sure what your point is

Richard

Neither do I Im just being difficult for the sake of it

At the end of the day, here in this thread are two camps

1/ Private people looking for the best deal they can get.....and good on them

2/ Business owners looking for every scrap of business they can get in this fucked market......and good on them

These two groups are clashing at the predictable cross roads of either the consumer buying locally or the consumer buying offshore.
There are strong arguments on both sides of the camp, and both sides have reasonable grounds to have the passion showed here in this thread.

at the end of the day, like I have said before we all try and do our best for our situations, and as long as we have this sort of freedom we will have these issues.

the results will not be favorable to the big picture tho, those of us in business are loosing margin "big time" and one day (not far away) it wont be worth it, we will do something else. then what will we have in NZ? cheap prices from imported goods and no money to buy them as we wont have any employers left.
Yes Business need protection (in my big picture view)

[Coldrider]

Sometimes I think people post on here for the sake of being argumentative.

You are the one that's trolling, I don't believe for a minute that you do not understand basic economic theory with respect to perfectly competitive markets.

[steve_t]

Now if I am sourcing commodities , overseas is always going to win as the overheads relative to our are probably less

So we can produce something that no one else can or does , or add value to the product , ( back up service , knowledge , and a christmas card )

I can either invest time in getting that knowledge in order to make an informed decision , or pay someone to locate , or service the product I have or intend to buy

I'm good, with the above ...

But some business have poor judgment on margins ,or service , they don't get any repeat custom from moi ( of course if it a cock up and all good in the end , probably get lots more repeat custom)

Stephen

So is a bike shop, carrying stock of different sizes for people to try on, adding value to the product? Or is a person going to a bike shop to try on sizes before buying from eBay etc 'investing time to get the knowledge' of what size fits them best?

[Quasievil]

You are the one that's trolling, I don't believe for a minute that you do not understand basic economic theory with respect to perfectly competitive markets.

Are you referring to RT's small new Zealand market with the pressure from here on him to compete in the Global market that is being adopted so readily from those on here.
Ok Im stirring.

I love it at the track when I see people I KNOW brought of shore busting there ARSE to get RT to sort out there bike for them.

Yes Im still shit stirring.

[Coldrider]

Yes Im still shit stirring.

I know, alot of commercial models that secondary school students use for practical assignments are virtual warehouse models, yet real intertnet uptake is still very slow.

[Robert Taylor]

Sometimes?

Basically, anyone who owns/runs a business has a totally different perspective to someone who has only ever been an employee.

Let me opportunistically chime in here! I was an employee of several companies here in NZ and in the UK for the first 20 years or so of my working life. For the following 18 odd years I have been an employer but have NEVER forgotten what it was like to be an employee. Dennis Shaw is my right hand man ( an employee ) and is VERY important to my business. He is paid accordingly ( from my massive profits, NOT ) and has very liberal conditions. I look after him and because of that I get good work and output. He was many years ago my boss at then Yamaha distibutor Moller Yamaha and was decent then as he is now. A good relationship between employers and employees is possible and beneficial.

What really riles me is the ''us and them '' attitudes perpetuated by both bad employees and employers.

[Brian d marge]

So is a bike shop, carrying stock of different sizes for people to try on, adding value to the product? Or is a person going to a bike shop to try on sizes before buying from eBay etc 'investing time to get the knowledge' of what size fits them best?

both I would have thought ( in this case) As gaining that knowledge may be a good use of resources ( time) for the customer and the shop is building a customer relationship/base.

but for the customer as the quest for the Holy grail drags on there will be a point at which it would be better to pay ( such as in Mechanical work ...)

It would be the bike shops call to say at which point it becomes unprofitable and to direct the customer to another sales point

Depends on what sort of relationship you want with that customer ,,, in NZ I would assume long term ( but that may not be true all the time , as you may not want the scrote back again )


Me personally would try and help the customer the best I could, if they want to order it themselves , they can , I can assist. and I am pretty sure , that most of em will come back for other stuff ( prices being not to far out of course )

Must dash , I ll try and tidy this up later ...

Stephen

[Robert Taylor]

Are you referring to RT's small new Zealand market with the pressure from here on him to compete in the Global market that is being adopted so readily from those on here.
Ok Im stirring.

I love it at the track when I see people I KNOW brought of shore busting there ARSE to get RT to sort out there bike for them.

Yes Im still shit stirring.

Prorities Quasi, those that bought off me get first priority, as is fair and reasonable. I will though help ANYONE that asks and as time allows. The great difficulty with my trade is that you may have to sort out maybe 10-20 riders within a very very compressed timeframe, its more than nuts! And if you dont get say 2 of those right instantly there are vultures circling. Who of course have a perfect record of excellence, or would have you believe that.

The reality also is ( with a product that requires optimisation for circuit conditions ) if you bought it direct from the States they dont have any technicians on hand to back up their product, in the markets they are so happy to sell into. Also as has been apparent the odd parallell importer has also lacked tuning options ( enough springs etc ) to back up their ticket clipping.

The reality is we are competitive on price with the overseas resellers and will do reasonable deals, but we have a major point of difference in that we back it up to the hilt.

[steve_t]

Let me opportunistically chime in here! I was an employee of several companies here in NZ and in the UK for the first 20 years or so of my working life. For the following 18 odd years I have been an employer but have NEVER forgotten what it was like to be an employee. Dennis Shaw is my right hand man ( an employee ) and is VERY important to my business. He is paid accordingly ( from my massive profits, NOT ) and has very liberal conditions. I look after him and because of that I get good work and output. He was many years ago my boss at then Yamaha distibutor Moller Yamaha and was decent then as he is now. A good relationship between employers and employees is possible and beneficial.

What really riles me is the ''us and them '' attitudes perpetuated by both bad employees and employers.

Agree, but I don't actually know any employers who have never been employees. I'm sure the vast majority of employers can empathise with employees wanting a higher pay rate, more public holidays, etc. but I'm pretty sure the vast majority of employees have no idea about the costs of running a business with overheads being generally skipped over. Power, phone, insurance premiums, ACC levies etc etc etc are hugely expensive let alone wages and all the taxes. I'm not trying to sound separatist but I do think that someone who has owned or run a business has a more informed view of why things cost what they do. I think any employer who doesn't appreciate the value their employees is asking to go out of business.

Obviously, if every employer in the country was driving a Ferrari or Lambo, while they paid their employees $12.75/h it'd be a different story

[Robert Taylor]

Agree, but I don't actually know any employers who have never been employees. I'm sure the vast majority of employers can empathise with employees wanting a higher pay rate, more public holidays, etc. but I'm pretty sure the vast majority of employees have no idea about the costs of running a business with overheads being generally skipped over. Power, phone, insurance premiums, ACC levies etc etc etc are hugely expensive let alone wages and all the taxes. I'm not trying to sound separatist but I do think that someone who has owned or run a business has a more informed view of why things cost what they do. I think any employer who doesn't appreciate the value their employees is asking to go out of business.

Obviously, if every employer in the country was driving a Ferrari or Lambo, while they paid their employees $12.75/h it'd be a different story

There is absolutely nothing that you have said that I can disagree with.

[Edbear]

There is absolutely nothing that you have said that I can disagree with.

+1 on that! Employees need to be told how crucial they are to the success of the business, therefore their own careers. An employee can make or break a business. My son-in-law finally got rid of an employee who cost the business $10k in one month in vehicle expenses including crashing a van on the way back from picking it up from the panelbeaters where it had just been fixed from his previous prang! He couldn't understand why the boss was so upset...

How often do we hear of business owners working for less income than their staff?

[Katman]

How often do we hear of business owners working for less income than their staff?

Since I've been working for myself I've been amused by the number of people who seem to think that anyone who has their own business must have it sweet.

They wouldn't know the half of it.

[Coldrider]

How often do we hear of business owners working for less income than their staff?

perfect competative market, too many players, pricetakers, the intelligent ones will exit that market and join one that has a distortion, the others will continue shooting out till they lose.
There is no point ruining a good business by hitting an obsticle you can actually see.

[Edbear]

Since I've been working for myself I've been amused by the number of people who seem to think that anyone who has their own business must have it sweet.

They wouldn't know the half of it.

Yup! I like the challenge of building something with my own "hands". I have had tough times and good times, more tough than good so far but this one is looking very good as I can apply everything I've learned and work with big companies I have developed relationships with.

We don't have the security of a regular wage and I have invested more money than I'd care to tell and am working very hard to get that back so I can take advantage of new opportunities opening up. But thanks to a supportive wife who is earning a good salary we are surviving until my business grows enough to support us.

I'd work about half the hours I do now, or even less, were I an employee and I could budget. But there's something about running your own business that makes us entrepreneurs...