Interesting article on traffic lights

[swbarnett]

some people will always be stupid.

Very true. And ALL people will be stupid SOME of the time (myself included). But if we keep dwelling on this fact people will be even more stupid because they are made to feel less intelligent than they really are.

I have heard it said that any given country has the Government that it deserves. I think the same can be said for drivers. If we stopped trying to create roads that someone with the brain of a flea could navigate in near total safety and rather told drivers that we expect them to think for themselves we would have much better drivers.

[bogan]

Having so many stop signs that people don't stop at actually increases the risk at the stop signs that actually need to be stopped at, by creating an apathetic attitude toward the important ones.

very much agree with that, it applies to double yellows on highways as well.

[Highlander]

get rid of the lights,
put in traffic islands.

Or be like Tauranga and put traffic lights at the round abouts. Confusing.

[Berries]

I'm considering campaigning to have most stop signs removed from the town I am living in.

Having so many stop signs that people don't stop at actually increases the risk at the stop signs that actually need to be stopped at, by creating an apathetic attitude toward the important ones.

In my experience the majority of stop signs do not meet the visibility criteria required for their installation and they should therefore be give way signs. This is what causes the lack of compliance with them. Unfortunately the ones that don't get complied with, the ones that don't meet that criteria, are generally the ones that get enforced. Don't you/they call them fishing holes ?

We would all be better off if stop signs were only used where visibility was so restricted that you had to come to a stop before proceeding, which is what the requirements are meant to achieve, but they get put in for all kinds of reasons these days, you'd be lucky to get any pulled out.

[rastuscat]

In my experience the majority of stop signs do not meet the visibility criteria required for their installation and they should therefore be give way signs. This is what causes the lack of compliance with them. Unfortunately the ones that don't get complied with, the ones that don't meet that criteria, are generally the ones that get enforced. Don't you/they call them fishing holes

Interesting. I agree with a lot of what you have said here.

It's my understanding (stand to be corrected) that for a stop sign to be installed there has to be less than 9 metres of clear visibility for each 10km/h of the crossing traffic i.e. in a 50 km/h area, there needs to be 45 metres or less of clear visibility for a stop to be installed. In a 70 km/h area it would be 63 clear metres.

Remember that one one side of an intersection you might have lots of visibility, but on the other you might have less than the standard. I laugh when I see intersections with a stop sign on one side, and a give way on the other. It's interesting to sit and watch the confusion reign. Theres one in Reefton, another at Chaneys Corner. I'm sure there are others. Decent folk regularly sit and wait while they sort out who has priority. In fact, maybe that's the answer, make things so confusing that everyone actually stops to work it out

Trouble we have is the looked but failed to see crashes. People frequently crash at stop signs and give ways into vehicles they didn't see coming. It's a whole other topic. Our theory is that if people actually comply with their requirement at stop signs, they will have a smaller chance of looking and not seeing, as they have taken the time to stop and have a decent look, instead of just a rolling glance.

Still, I really think we have far too many regulatory signs. Too many for the good of our road safety.

Donuts.

[Bikemad]

yeah...........get rid of the lights and signs............these guys dont seem to need em........

[Scuba_Steve]

guess this is all part of easier da road stupider da driver. But I have seen studies previous which show to in general traffic lights are the slowest option for moving traffic & they only "appear" to work as they breakup the traffic by backing it further out

[Toaster]

Very true. And ALL people will be stupid SOME of the time (myself included). But if we keep dwelling on this fact people will be even more stupid because they are made to feel less intelligent than they really are.

I have heard it said that any given country has the Government that it deserves. I think the same can be said for drivers. If we stopped trying to create roads that someone with the brain of a flea could navigate in near total safety and rather told drivers that we expect them to think for themselves we would have much better drivers.

Great post. Totally agreed.

[Berries]

It's my understanding (stand to be corrected) that for a stop sign to be installed there has to be less than 9 metres of clear visibility for each 10km/h of the crossing traffic i.e. in a 50 km/h area, there needs to be 45 metres or less of clear visibility for a stop to be installed. In a 70 km/h area it would be 63 clear metres.

Close. The measurement is taken 9m back from the limit lines and is 1.2 x the speed that 85% of vehicles are doing. So in a 50km/h area with a 55km/h 85th percentile you are looking at 65m. In a 70 it would be over 80m.

Remember that one one side of an intersection you might have lots of visibility, but on the other you might have less than the standard. I laugh when I see intersections with a stop sign on one side, and a give way on the other. It's interesting to sit and watch the confusion reign. Theres one in Reefton, another at Chaneys Corner. I'm sure there are others.

I complained about one at the end of the street I used to live on. Stop one side, give way the other, nobody knew what to do. Council made them both stops and lo and behold, the one where you can see for miles doesn't get complied with. Another shit NZ specific rule anyway. Here you are expecting people to look at the back of the sign on the opposite side of the road to see if it differs to the one on your side. FFS. Some people can't even see the sign on their own side.

[Bassmatt]

Interesting. I agree with a lot of what you have said here.

It's my understanding (stand to be corrected) that for a stop sign to be installed there has to be less than 9 metres of clear visibility for each 10km/h of the crossing traffic i.e. in a 50 km/h area, there needs to be 45 metres or less of clear visibility for a stop to be installed. In a 70 km/h area it would be 63 clear metres.


Still, I really think we have far too many regulatory signs. Too many for the good of our road safety.

Donuts.

There are three stop signs within 2ks of each other round my parts that would have at least 50% more than the required visibility. All three have accidents on a fairly regular basis because everybody is too bloody impatient. How many times have you been alone on a road and someone has pulled out in front of you when they only had to wait a few seconds for you to go past.

[Bassmatt]

very much agree with that, it applies to double yellows on highways as well.

Couldnt agree more. 2k stretches of clear road with double yellows? Then you get places where they could be justified and they dont have them.
There has been so much road in the BOP double yellowed recently that I wonder if the plan is to double yellow everything. That would be wonderful considering all the people who do 80kph or less on the open road around here.

[Mully Clown]

. I laugh when I see intersections with a stop sign on one side, and a give way on the other. It's interesting to sit and watch the confusion reign. Theres one in Reefton, another at Chaneys Corner. I'm sure there are others.

It's more confusing with traffic lights. Turning left on a green light while giving way to the right turning traffic on the other side. Who have a red arrow which you don't know about.

[superman]

Thats because over there you get hog-tied tazered for jay walking.....lol
I watched an episode of cops last night. JEEEeezus! they dont take any shit over there.

Mate Cops Uncut is just terrifying. Family get pulled over because the cops thought they were robbers and they're all outside of the car handcuffed on their knees. Then their little dog comes out of the car, looked like a little Yorkshire Terrier and an officer shotgunned it straight in the face.

All on camera, and as you can imagine how distraught the innocent family was. Officer got off too, "dog singled me out for attack sir".

I'd much rather put up with the bad drivers in NZ than have to live in a crazy police state.

[scumdog]

Mate Cops Uncut is just terrifying. Family get pulled over because the cops thought they were robbers and they're all outside of the car handcuffed on their knees. Then their little dog comes out of the car, looked like a little Yorkshire Terrier and an officer shotgunned it straight in the face.

All on camera, and as you can imagine how distraught the innocent family was. Officer got off too, "dog singled me out for attack sir".

I'd much rather put up with the bad drivers in NZ than have to live in a crazy police state.

WTF: Those drivers can kill you.....

[Ocean1]

I think the traffic lights thing is old news. I remember reading a thesis near 20 years ago that found that fatalities rose on most intersections where lights were installed.