Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 93

Thread: Public liability

  1. #16
    Join Date
    27th September 2007 - 22:22
    Bike
    2004, Husqvarna TE450
    Location
    Christchurch
    Posts
    167
    Quote Originally Posted by pete376403 View Post
    So it may be that the landowner is using the "OSH thing" as a means of keeping rec. users out, even if it (OSH) doesn't apply.
    Could be.

    By the varied responses here it seems to be not very well understood as far as recreational use goes.

    I'm pretty keen to get to the bottom of it and get a definitive answer (as I'm sure alot of you are)
    I've email a lawyer friend to get a legal opinion and will keep ya posted.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    27th September 2007 - 22:22
    Bike
    2004, Husqvarna TE450
    Location
    Christchurch
    Posts
    167
    Quote Originally Posted by warewolf View Post
    It might be simply that most "strange" visitors are occupational so the landowners haven't considered that recreational use is different.

    Basically if visiting family & friends don't need OSH induction or whatever, then other recreational visitors don't either.
    I would like to think that right WW. If you look at the DOC website for hunting in conversation areas, many of areas are accessed over private land and freely give the farmers contact details. In fact a few I know of can only be accessed via private land.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    15th August 2006 - 17:33
    Bike
    2001 R1150GS
    Location
    South Taranaki
    Posts
    5,530
    Quote Originally Posted by monchopper View Post
    Could be.

    By the varied responses here it seems to be not very well understood as far as recreational use goes.

    I'm pretty keen to get to the bottom of it and get a definitive answer (as I'm sure alot of you are)
    I've email a lawyer friend to get a legal opinion and will keep ya posted.
    cool, look forward to what he finds out
    'Good things come to those who wait'
    Bollocks, get of your arse and go get it

  4. #19
    Join Date
    15th August 2004 - 17:52
    Bike
    KTM 2T & LC4
    Location
    Rather be riding
    Posts
    3,326
    Quote Originally Posted by dino3310 View Post
    but as the farm is the farmers place of work dosent that make it a "work site
    It might do, but we aren't discussing work. And that is the crux of the matter.

    Caving has been going through all this shite for the last 15 years or so (at least; that's only since it's really impacted me). About 10 years ago, recreational cavers were all but stopped from entering most properties in Waitomo for a while, due to OSH reacting to some incidents and some panicked farmers scaremongering. Then a very firm legal opinion (decision?) came down that OSH had no business interfering because we weren't working. So then the floodgates opened and it was pretty much open slather again; in fact some farmers who were previously a bit leery gave us the green light after a few years of virtually nil access for fear of OSH repercussions.
    Cheers,
    Colin

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve McQueen
    All racers I know aren't in it for the money. They race because it's something inside of them... They're not courting death. They're courting being alive.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    17th December 2005 - 23:52
    Bike
    2011 EXCf400
    Location
    Northland
    Posts
    67
    The original HASE act of 1992 was virtually unworkable as far as recreational activities on private land was concerned and the act was modified in 2002. As a motorcyclist riding across a farmers land you are treated just the same as if you were the relative of the farmer visiting the farm for the day.
    Under the amendment the farmer only has to tell all visitors to the farm what dangers are present that they wouldnt normally be expected to find...these include any heavy earth works, blasting, logging, particularly wild bulls etc. He doesnt have to tell you about logs buried in the grass or tomos or steep drop offs, cliffs, swamps etc..etc. Thats all there is to it.
    Waivers are useless.....dont bother with them. A land owner will still be prosecuted if they neglect to inform visitors of the unexpected dangers even if a waiver is signed.
    I`ve been working with Mike Britton for 11 years helping to obtain permission for land access and we still occasionally come across a farmer who doesnt know how the Act applies. On those occasions we hand out the pamphlets that OSH put out that explain land access rules. You could obtain them or you could print out this and give it to the landowner.... http://www.osh.govt.nz/publications/...-visitors.html
    If you pay to be on the farm thats a different story...the duty of care on the farmer is much greater.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    27th September 2007 - 22:22
    Bike
    2004, Husqvarna TE450
    Location
    Christchurch
    Posts
    167
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeJ View Post
    The original HASE act of 1992 was virtually unworkable as far as recreational activities on private land was concerned and the act was modified in 2002. As a motorcyclist riding across a farmers land you are treated just the same as if you were the relative of the farmer visiting the farm for the day.
    Under the amendment the farmer only has to tell all visitors to the farm what dangers are present that they wouldnt normally be expected to find...these include any heavy earth works, blasting, logging, particularly wild bulls etc. He doesnt have to tell you about logs buried in the grass or tomos or steep drop offs, cliffs, swamps etc..etc. Thats all there is to it.
    Waivers are useless.....dont bother with them. A land owner will still be prosecuted if they neglect to inform visitors of the unexpected dangers even if a waiver is signed.
    I`ve been working with Mike Britton for 11 years helping to obtain permission for land access and we still occasionally come across a farmer who doesnt know how the Act applies. On those occasions we hand out the pamphlets that OSH put out that explain land access rules. You could obtain them or you could print out this and give it to the landowner.... http://www.osh.govt.nz/publications/...-visitors.html
    If you pay to be on the farm thats a different story...the duty of care on the farmer is much greater.
    This is perfect thanks MikeJ. I will read the docs and send them to the farmer as I think this should be sufficient to change his mind. I think this is the silver bullet

    My next move was to ask if even tho he didn't give permission, would he ring the police if he saw 11 bikes trespassing on the discussed route on xx day? If not then no difference really. (unless he double crossed me....) , but it doesn't look like that option will be needed!!

    I wonder how this applies to situations like Blackforest Rd, where you pay a gate fee.
    Could that gate fee be construed as land access payment?

  7. #22
    Join Date
    26th January 2008 - 07:37
    Bike
    91 R80GS
    Location
    Nelson
    Posts
    5,225
    Good stuff Mike J.
    In life as in dance Grace glides on blistered feet

  8. #23
    Join Date
    11th February 2008 - 18:37
    Bike
    Black Thunder
    Location
    Eastern Bay of Plenty
    Posts
    1,018
    Having grown up on a farm, I wouldn´t enter a farm property without permission. I think that would be a certain invitation to have a bullet whizzing over ones head...

    My guess is that this farmer doesn´t want anyone on his farm property. If, after attempting to clear up any misunderstandings, his reply is still no, I definitely would not enter his property.

    JMHO
    A dream without a plan is just a wish!

    Make it happen....

    ....DREAM+PLAN+ACTION=GOAL/TARGET

  9. #24
    Join Date
    27th September 2008 - 18:14
    Bike
    SWM RS 650R
    Location
    Richmond
    Posts
    3,816
    Interesting stuff. I think the farmer is just unsure of the rules / liability etc so is just using osh as a scapegoat. A bit of education is probarbly all he needs.
    I mentioned vegetables once, but I think I got away with it...........

  10. #25
    Join Date
    15th August 2006 - 17:33
    Bike
    2001 R1150GS
    Location
    South Taranaki
    Posts
    5,530
    Quote Originally Posted by warewolf View Post
    It might do, but we aren't discussing work. And that is the crux of the matter.
    .
    cheers Colin, that made a lotta sence. all my dealings with farmers are through work so thats another ballpark.

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeJ View Post
    Under the amendment the farmer only has to tell all visitors to the farm what dangers are present that they wouldnt normally be expected to find.
    Thats a hazard induction. Thanks for your input Mike, i wonderd how the Britton rides coverd so many farms.

    Quote Originally Posted by BiK3RChiK View Post
    Having grown up on a farm, I wouldn´t enter a farm property without permission. I think that would be a certain invitation to have a bullet whizzing over ones head...
    JMHO
    unless its a KLR then they might aim a little lower

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodman View Post
    Interesting stuff. I think the farmer is just unsure of the rules / liability etc so is just using osh as a scapegoat. A bit of education is probarbly all he needs.
    Good luck trying to educate them

    Good thread monchooper
    'Good things come to those who wait'
    Bollocks, get of your arse and go get it

  11. #26
    Join Date
    4th August 2006 - 12:37
    Bike
    Sportster
    Location
    Hamilton
    Posts
    1,673
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by dino3310 View Post
    cheers Colin, that made a lotta sence. all my dealings with farmers are through work so thats another ballpark.


    Thats a hazard induction. Thanks for your input Mike, i wonderd how the Britton rides coverd so many farms.


    unless its a KLR then they might aim a little lower


    Good luck trying to educate them

    Good thread monchooper
    enough with the damn yellow Dino!!

  12. #27
    Join Date
    15th August 2006 - 17:33
    Bike
    2001 R1150GS
    Location
    South Taranaki
    Posts
    5,530
    Quote Originally Posted by wysper View Post
    enough with the damn yellow Dino!!
    a multi quote habit of mine
    'Good things come to those who wait'
    Bollocks, get of your arse and go get it

  13. #28
    Join Date
    15th September 2008 - 16:53
    Bike
    1999 BMW R1100GS / 2012 WR 250 R
    Location
    Inglewood
    Posts
    838
    Putting all tho OSH stuff to one side for a moment A lot of Farmers don't want a bunch of bikes ripping around on their front lawn (regardless of how big that lawn is) and use the OSH thing as an easy out
    Its really a responsibility of the us bikers to ensure that when granted permission we act responsibly so that the next guy that asks also gets a yes

  14. #29
    Join Date
    15th August 2006 - 17:33
    Bike
    2001 R1150GS
    Location
    South Taranaki
    Posts
    5,530
    Quote Originally Posted by That looks like fun View Post
    Putting all tho OSH stuff to one side for a moment A lot of Farmers don't want a bunch of bikes ripping around on their front lawn (regardless of how big that lawn is) and use the OSH thing as an easy out
    Its really a responsibility of the us bikers to ensure that when granted permission we act responsibly so that the next guy that asks also gets a yes
    here here
    'Good things come to those who wait'
    Bollocks, get of your arse and go get it

  15. #30
    Join Date
    15th August 2004 - 17:52
    Bike
    KTM 2T & LC4
    Location
    Rather be riding
    Posts
    3,326
    Awesome stuff, MikeJ, top marks for clarification It's always good have a documented source for such things.
    Cheers,
    Colin

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve McQueen
    All racers I know aren't in it for the money. They race because it's something inside of them... They're not courting death. They're courting being alive.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •