Public liability

**monchopper** · 8th January 2011, 19:05

I was chatting to the manager of a large high country station today about getting access to ride a couple of tracks on the property.

He said the new owners of the station wouldn't give permission to anyone they didn't know or hadn't met because if one of us was to injure ourselves on their property we could sue them. I've agreed to investigate with a lawyer the possibility of having some kind of liability waiver drawn up that the riders could sign.
(Or is this a polite way of telling me to piss off??)

I've spoken to 100's of farmers regarding access before and this is the first time it's popped up.

Has anyone encountered this before? If so is there a standard 'sign ya life away' legal agreement thats I can download?

Thoughts please.

**FJRider** · 8th January 2011, 19:19

Under the "no fault" policy of 99.9 % of the New zealand population ... it can't be their fault if they have an "off" ... therefore it MUST be the land-owner's fault for not warning them of ALL dangers on the property ... thus ... causing them to "off" ...

O.S.H seems to support this opinion ... MANY events have been cancelled due to this thinking ...

Liability waivers are a waste of paper in the opinion of "most" legal authorities ...

GOOD LUCK ...

**dino3310** · 8th January 2011, 20:04

I work for a Regional Council and
A lot of farmers are up to date with H&S, signs scattered around boundrys etc, more and more are wanting me to notify them when im on there properties and on routine inspectoins and stuff i might be on 20 farms a day so notification gets f@$kin time consuming.
FJriders is right - Liability waivers are not worth the paper there written on....
i would approach that farmer again and see if it was possible to do an safety induction and a hazard register sign off as a group before a ride. they will have a Hazard register and a H&S policy..

We have to do a Hazard ID/induction with volunteers on public plant days etc.

Its a big can of worms your looking into, most people will have there own interpretations on farm access, riders rights, paper roads, H&S.

**That looks like fun** · 8th January 2011, 20:35

Just to throw an egg into your basket of apples perhaps it would be wise to look at if a transaction is involved. If not then

**monchopper** · 8th January 2011, 21:19

This is sounding like a bit of a nightmare really. What is the world coming to, not really the kiwi way now is it? To sue someone for your errors of judgement.

A H&S induction is out of the question. Apart from the fact I live in London we are going through 30 odd farms imagine if we had to do that for all of them.

Luckerly this is the only one so far who has brought this up.
I think it's going to be easier to draft another route that doesn't go through this station.

I'm no lawyer but surely a legal doc stating because of the nature of purposed activity and the countryside/alpine environment that conditions are constantly changing, rockfalls, floods....., slips and land slides. The landowner has made every effort to identify and we the undersigned understand the risks....... would cover their arses..no?

**slofox** · 8th January 2011, 21:25

Oh FFS...this is all the nanny state stuff run amok. What the FLICK ever happened to personal responsibility...

My goddam risk if I want to take it...

**FJRider** · 8th January 2011, 21:28

Originally Posted by monchopper

....... would cover their arses..no?

in plain english ... no

**TimeOut** · 8th January 2011, 21:30

The land owner needs to be careful with friends as well as it won't be the friend suing /prosecuteing it'll be OSH (with or without their permission)

**FJRider** · 8th January 2011, 21:34

Originally Posted by slofox

Oh FFS...this is all the nanny state stuff run amok. What the FLICK ever happened to personal responsibility...

My goddam risk if I want to take it...

Ask the parents of the kid that wrapped himself around a power pole what happened to it ...

**monchopper** · 8th January 2011, 21:49

Originally Posted by TimeOut

The land owner needs to be careful with friends as well as it won't be the friend suing /prosecuteing it'll be OSH (with or without their permission)

What happens to the angler who is using an 'Anglers Access' route over private land who slips over on xxxx and ends up with a broken leg and fish hooks as ear rings??

Whats the difference?

**warewolf** · 8th January 2011, 22:05

AFAIK OSH only applies to literally "occupational" use. Recreational use is not covered.

Have been through this with caving. No need for induction or any such thing, nor any other OSH compliance, because we are not working - and if no koha to the landowner then neither are they wrt to us. Hence with your angler monchopper, OSH has no business with him.

**dino3310** · 8th January 2011, 22:24

Originally Posted by monchopper

A H&S induction is out of the question. Apart from the fact I live in London we are going through 30 odd farms imagine if we had to do that for all of them.
Luckerly this is the only one so far who has brought this up.
I think it's going to be easier to draft another route that doesn't go through this station.

theres still a few good ole kiwi cockys that will let you on, i wonder how britton adventure tours does it they cover farms all over the country

Originally Posted by slofox

Oh FFS...this is all the nanny state stuff run amok. What the FLICK ever happened to personal responsibility...

My goddam risk if I want to take it...

nanny state, welfare state, bull shit state... what ever happened to personal responsibility?.... ask Labour

Originally Posted by TimeOut

The land owner needs to be careful with friends as well as it won't be the friend suing /prosecuteing it'll be OSH (with or without their permission)

i got friends with farms who wont let me or the kids ride on it cause of that... osh bloody osh, some H&S just gets carried away, the practibilty and common sense have gone from H&S

Originally Posted by monchopper

What happens to the angler who is using an 'Anglers Access' route over private land who slips over on xxxx and ends up with a broken leg and fish hooks as ear rings??

Whats the difference?

Depends, sometimes the access is a paper road, some times its looked after buy fish & game or Doc....
Good question, Lion rock not far south from Raglan has claimed fishos lives and thats accessed through land with open access to public(gate with honesty box) i dont know how they get away with that.

**pete376403** · 8th January 2011, 22:32

Originally Posted by warewolf

AFAIK OSH only applies to literally "occupational" use. Recreational use is not covered.

Have been through this with caving. No need for induction or any such thing, nor any other OSH compliance, because we are not working - and if no koha to the landowner then neither are they wrt to us. Hence with your angler monchopper, OSH has no business with him.

So it may be that the landowner is using the "OSH thing" as a means of keeping rec. users out, even if it (OSH) doesn't apply.

**warewolf** · 8th January 2011, 22:42

Originally Posted by pete376403

So it may be that the landowner is using the "OSH thing" as a means of keeping rec. users out, even if it (OSH) doesn't apply.

It might be simply that most "strange" visitors are occupational so the landowners haven't considered that recreational use is different.

Basically if visiting family & friends don't need OSH induction or whatever, then other recreational visitors don't either.