Public liability

[warewolf]

your not allowed to damage private property in reopening the route i.e. cutting locks or smashing up gates isn't actually playing the game.

I wonder if that has changed in recent years. Or whether lifting a gate off its hinges doesn't count as damage, merely relocation?

[FJRider]

True. And further if a farmer decides to move the track, usually for his own convenience, he cannot [edit: or more correctly perhaps, should not] block the surveyed road with locked gates, fences etc, and then turn around and deny usage of "his" track because it's not the paper road.

His choices become a) let the public traverse his new track, or b) public removes illegal gates/fences along surveyed route to effect passage. His call.

The usual process is for land occupiers of paper roads, to make them unaccessable ... or at least unattractive/difficult to traverse, then apply to get the paper road stopped.

[warewolf]

The usual process is for land occupiers of paper roads, to make them unaccessable ... or at least unattractive/difficult to traverse, then apply to get the paper road stopped.

All the more reason to get out there and call their bluff.

[monchopper]

In saying this the key bit I didn't quote from the walking access commission fact sheet is that your not allowed to damage private property in reopening the route i.e. cutting locks or smashing up gates isn't actually playing the game. It suggest talk to landowner, then council to resolve.

This has been entertaining for a first day back at work.

It looks like cutting a lock is wilful damage, which is against the law!
We need to remember that we are constantly knowingly breaking the law but we seldom get caught and when we do we are happy to take responsibiltiy for our actions.

Eg. Driving your car at 55kph, we know it's against the law but we ALSO know that the chances of getting caught are slim and if we DO get caught we know we'll probably get a warning and if we get a ticket then oh well most of us can live with that.


This is (in italics) from a lawyer in relation to locked gates. This isn't direct legal advice and shouldn't taken as such, but an informal email discussion advising ME on the possible consequences of getting the gas axe out!

I imagine getting your bike over the fence may be a problem. Nothing a pair of bolt cutters wouldn't fix! Even if you did that I doubt there is anything they could do. It's nominally an offence of wilful damage but if you are lawfully justified in damaging the property that amounts to a defence. Here you would say their actions are unlawful in blocking you access.

It looks like a case of 2 wrongs making a right.

If you're going to prosecute me for cutting your lock I'm going to prosecute you for making me

[monchopper]

We have gone off topic in this thread but it's all good stuff and obviously is keeping some of us who would be otherwise bored at work entertained!!!

[superman]

OSH are my heroes.

During primary school, they told us we couldn't run cross country barefeet without a signed note from your parents. So of course I turned up to school on cross country day with no shoes on

Thanks OSH. No matter how ridiculous people say you are, you still stopped me having to run.

[That looks like fun]

FJRider
Nothing mentioned about paper or public roads in the first post of this thread, which I referred to in the post of mine you just quoted .... access was asked for and was refused. ... end of story ....

so by that logic the roads are the cop on traffic duties work place so he has a duty to stop every person using the road and warn them of the hazards, after all no two roads are the same. The roads are also the work place of every courier driver, taxi driver, bus driver ... nah that's silly.

Debate was about access (by permission) and implications of OSH etc. Had nothing to do with paper roads or gates However a couple of guys (who have road bikes listed in their signatures) Jumped in and then it began
I find the issue of public roads interesting and can see it causing a lot of grief for Farmers in the future. For me I thank the guy who pasted the link to the OSH site that clarified the first issue
Only sensible reply I have noticed from an ex farmer was that the Farmer doesn't have to give permission.
How I behave when permission is given is what is important

[Waxxa]

I had somthing similar when rock-climbing several years ago where most of the rock-climbing in the north island is on private land.

The main thing is to respect the landowners wishes and ask for their permission to enter their property.

if a charge was imposed by the landowner, then they have a lot of OSH obligations to comply with. No charge imposed, then it is personal responsibility of the individual doing the said activity.

It sounds to me that the landowner just doesn't want a continuous stream of people going over his land (which is his right to say 'no') and is using the H&R as an excuse so he doesn't look like a prude.

[monchopper]

Maybe the OP wasn't that clear. The farmer didn't flat out say no, he had concerns about letting folks unknown onto the property because of his understanding of the liability thing.

I've now cleared up the OSH/liability thing with the help of the link Mike posted and he's happy with that.

He's not happy about letting people unknown on the property but he knows the farmer that I use as a referee from a previous ride and is contacting him to check our credentials as a group. So hopefully after much effort we will be rewarded with permission and some great tracks and stunning scenery!!

I'll keep ya posted

[mazz1972]

For what it's worth, this is the disclaimer found on the Motorcycling NZ website

DISCLAIMER OF LIABILITY: To ___________Motorcycle Club, and Motorcycling New Zealand Inc.

1. I have read the Supplementary Regulations for this Competition and agree to be bound by them and the Manual of Motorcycle Sport, the MNZ Constitution, and the MNZ Code of Conduct.
2. I am aware that the sport of Motorcycle Competition might a) cause me injury; serious or otherwise b) damage my property.
3. I wish to take part in the _______________________ despite the above risks.
4. Neither I, or anyone associated or connected with me will make any claim against you or your officers, employees or agents in respect of: a) any injury suffered by me; or b) any damage to any of my property regardless of how the injury or damage occurs.
5. I will indemnify you against all claims, damages or losses (including costs) which you incur as the direct or indirect result of any injury to me or damage to my property.
6. I am physically fit and there is no health or other reason why I should not participate in the sport of Motorcycle Competition.
7. I am aware that this disclaimer will not affect any legal obligations you have to me which you cannot contract out of under NZ Law.
8. I agree that in this disclaimer “my property” includes any property owned by me or in my possession or under my control.
9. I agree that this disclaimer will be binding on my family, my heirs, my legal assigns and my administrators and executors.
10. I accept that stripping and re-assembly for Technical Checks are at my cost.
11. I consent to the details contained in this form being held by the __________________ Motorcycle Club for the purpose of the promotion and the benefit of the race meeting concerned, and Motorcycling in general. I acknowledge my right to access and correction of this information. The consent is given in accordance with the Privacy Act 1993.
12. MNZ supports the FIM/IOC Charter on drugs in Sport. MNZ uses the services of Drug Free Sport NZ to professionally carry out the testing. I acknowledge by signing this form I maybe subjected to a drug/alcohol test at any time. I agree to such testing. I further agree that my name can be published by MNZ as having taken part in a drug/alcohol test together with the results of that testing.
13. I confirm that my machine complies with any technical rule(s) set out in the Manual of Motorcycle Sport and/or the Supplementary Regulations and that, to the best of my knowledge and belief, it is in safe working order and fit for competition.


Date………………………………………….

Signature of Rider:……....................…………………………………………………

Parent/Legal Guardian (who is to be present on race day if rider is under 16 years of age) ...........................................…

[monchopper]

UPDATE:

A C C E S S G R A N T E D

You beauty as this was a vital component to the third day of the ride and would required a total re-route.

[dino3310]

Sweet mate, nice one...

So when you organizing a KB ride

[FJRider]

For what it's worth, this is the disclaimer found on the Motorcycling NZ website

And if an oficer, employee, or agent of this group was found negelgent in their duties ... and you were hurt ... You could still sue them.

in fact ... even if they weren't ... you could still sue ...

[monchopper]

Sweet mate, nice one...

So when you organizing a KB ride

I'd love to once I move from London back to NZ in a couple of years.

The problem is that it's easier to get a farmer to agree to 12 riders that you can vouch for than 50 riders who you can't for obvious reasons.

I suspect that's why the Dusty Butt is conducted on mostly public roads.

Where as the trips I organise are high country trips that are mostly on private roads with 'lite' adventure bikes/Road legal enduro bikes. A KLX650/DR650 with a Joe average rider would struggle in alot of the terrain.
(not a slight on any bikes and or riders here!)

[monchopper]

And if an oficer, employee, or agent of this group was found negelgent in their duties ... and you were hurt ... You could still sue them.

in fact ... even if they weren't ... you could still sue ...

I didn't you could sue as such in NZ for physical injury because we have ACC
(At least thats what my lawyer told me, maybe I took it out of context?)