I've bought a lemon, what are my rights?

**martybabe** · 11th January 2011, 08:57

I bought a brand new bike in March 2010. To cut a long story short, the blasted thing has let me down on over 30 occasions. The dealer is some 350k away so getting it back to them is somewhat of a hassle, however, it has been returned to them twice, the latest visit has had it sitting in their workshop for 4 weeks and all they appear to have done is change the battery again because they can't find whatever the electrical problem is.

Sooo, having endured a hopelessly unreliable bike for nearly 10 months, 3 batteries and no guarantee it will ever start again once it has left the workshop, what are my options?

I'm not from NZ so the consumer protection laws (if there are any) are a mystery to me. I'm about to have words with the manager of the dealership but I would be better armed to do battle if I had an inkling of where I stood legally.

I'm not asking for Free lawyership here but if somebody can give me an idea of where I stand and where I start the inevitable battle for justice, it would be very gratefully appreciated.

Thanks Clever ones

**yachtie10** · 11th January 2011, 09:03

no expert but sounds like you have grounds for a refund
The issue will probably be records if it only been back to the dealer twice then it will be hard to prove the faults have happened as much as 30 times.
They may claim that they have not had a reasonable hance to rectify.

Have they given a loan bike? I would think that 4 weeks is a long time to wait and probably unreasonable

I would be presuring them for a refund based on the consumer guarantees act so at least if its fixed this time then you would have grounds for a refund.

Best of luck

**Usarka** · 11th January 2011, 09:04

Have a browse through this......

http://www.consumeraffairs.govt.nz/f...ehicle-traders

Key sections:

Serious faultsIf a vehicle has a serious fault, the consumer may choose between these remedies:

* rejecting the vehicle and seeking a refund or replacement vehicle (of similar value and type), or
* keeping the vehicle and seeking compensation for the loss in value.
Even if a serious fault can be fixed, the consumer may choose a refund rather than a repair.

What is a serious fault?A serious fault is one where:

a reasonable consumer would not have bought the vehicle if they had known the fault existed
the vehicle is significantly different from the demonstration model or its description
the vehicle is substantially unfit for its normal purpose and cannot be made fit for purpose by a repair
the vehicle is substantially unfit for the particular purpose it was purchased for – eg, you informed the consumer that the car will be able to tow their boat and it cannot.
the vehicle is unsafe.

From the Courts
The Courts have decided that a fault might be considered serious when:

the cost of the repair is high compared with the price paid for the vehicle – eg, repairs of $1,000 required on a car bought for $5,000
the vehicle has a number of small faults, which on their own may be minor, but together may be serious.
If you accept that the fault is serious, and that you are responsible under the CGA, you are obliged to accept the remedy that the consumer has chosen.

**HenryDorsetCase** · 11th January 2011, 09:17

Yep, Consumer Guarantees Act:

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/p...resel&p=1&sr=1

Its written in plain English, have a look through it.

To hit some of the high points: You have a statutory guarantee that goods are of acceptable quality and fit for purpose (ss 6 & 8 respectively).

If not then you have remedies available (you must give them an opportunity to repair etc

here is s19:

Originally Posted by Consumer Guarantees Act s19

Requirement to remedy

*

(1) A supplier may comply with a requirement to remedy a failure of any goods to comply with a guarantee—
o

(a) by—
+

(i) repairing the goods (in any case where the failure does not relate to title); or
+

(ii) curing any defect in title (in any case where the failure relates to title); or
o

(b) by replacing the goods with goods of identical type; or
o

(c) where the supplier cannot reasonably be expected to repair the goods, by providing a refund of any money paid or other consideration provided by the consumer in respect of the goods.

(2) Where a consumer obtains goods to replace defective goods pursuant to subsection (1), the replacement goods shall, for the purposes of this Act, be deemed to be supplied by the supplier and the guarantees and obligations arising under this Act consequent upon a supply of goods to a consumer shall apply to the replacement goods.

(3) A refund referred to in subsection (1)(c) means a refund in cash of the money paid or the value of any other consideration provided, or both, as the case may require.

You have a right to reject goods if they turn out to be unfit for purpose (s20) but you must follow the process in s22.

There is a case where a disgruntled customer, after having many difficulties with a vehicle, and a breakdown in relationship with the car dealer, was held to have validly rejected the goods (entitling him to a refund with costs etc) by taking the vehicle to the yard, and leaving it there.

I'll see if I can find a copy of the judgment.

Is this an issue with your XR1200? I only ask cos I want to take one for a strop as a potential next bike....

**martybabe** · 11th January 2011, 09:17

Originally Posted by yachtie10

no expert but sounds like you have grounds for a refund
The issue will probably be records if it only been back to the dealer twice then it will be hard to prove the faults have happened as much as 30 times.
They may claim that they have not had a reasonable hance to rectify.

Have they given a loan bike? I would think that 4 weeks is a long time to wait and probably unreasonable

I would be presuring them for a refund based on the consumer guarantees act so at least if its fixed this time then you would have grounds for a refund.

Best of luck

Originally Posted by Usarka

Have a browse through this......

http://www.consumeraffairs.govt.nz/f...ehicle-traders

Key sections:

That's great thanks Guys. Yatchie10 you're quite right about the records, as I have mostly arranged rescue from my own resources (Friends/Family and jump leads) proving it's sad history may be a problem.

Usarka: That's brilliant, something to get my teeth into, I wonder would a minor but persistent (seemingly unsolvable problem) be considered a serious fault?

Anyway, I'll see what the phone call to the boss man brings but assuming I get no joy, where to next? citizens advice or a bog standard solicitor? I don't feel confident enough to fight this alone with my high level of ignorance.

Thanks again.

**neels** · 11th January 2011, 09:23

Originally Posted by martybabe

I wonder would a minor but persistent (seemingly unsolvable problem) be considered a serious fault?

If it makes it unsuitable for purpose, then probably yes, as in a motorcycle that won't start when you want to take it for a ride is not much use as a motorcycle.

**HenryDorsetCase** · 11th January 2011, 09:25

Originally Posted by neels

If it makes it unsuitable for purpose, then probably yes, as in a motorcycle that won't start when you want to take it for a ride is not much use as a motorcycle.

thats what I reckon too

**martybabe** · 11th January 2011, 09:27

Originally Posted by HenryDorsetCase

Yep, Consumer Guarantees Act:

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/p...resel&p=1&sr=1

Its written in plain English, have a look through it.

To hit some of the high points: You have a statutory guarantee that goods are of acceptable quality and fit for purpose (ss 6 & 8 respectively).

If not then you have remedies available (you must give them an opportunity to repair etc

here is s19:

You have a right to reject goods if they turn out to be unfit for purpose (s20) but you must follow the process in s22.

There is a case where a disgruntled customer, after having many difficulties with a vehicle, and a breakdown in relationship with the car dealer, was held to have validly rejected the goods (entitling him to a refund with costs etc) by taking the vehicle to the yard, and leaving it there.

I'll see if I can find a copy of the judgment.

Is this an issue with your XR1200? I only ask cos I want to take one for a strop as a potential next bike....

Thanks for that, I am seriously considering leaving it there as they seem unable to offer me any Guarantee that the fault will not persist after I have driven it away. So back to square one with the return it to sender scenario.

Yes it is the XR although my particular problems do not seem to be common with the model (from what I've read) so I'm not about to bag the model as such, in fact this is my fourth Harley and I've never had a bit of trouble with the others and it is a great ride (when it's running). There comes a time however when enough is enough, being stranded everywhere soon becomes a chore.

**rastuscat** · 11th January 2011, 09:34

When I read your first post you didn't mention the brand of the bike. My naughty mind immediately wanted to post 'I bet it's a Harley', but I restrained myself out of sympathy for you. Then it turns out I was right.

I had a similar problem with a big BMW, so I know it's not only HDs, but that's precisely why Harleys polarize people. Some love them, most hate them.

Go figure

**spajohn** · 11th January 2011, 09:55

Before getting a solicitor I would pick up the phone and speak to the people at Consumer Affairs after you have looked through the action points on their site.

I did with an issue I had with Mainfreight and the CA guys were awesome, and after several months got a refund with no more $ spent on my behalf.

**martybabe** · 11th January 2011, 10:05

As an update for those of you kind enough to follow this sorry tale... I have just spoken to the manager of the dealership. He seems to be a reasonable chap and I explained the history of the bike including the breakdown on day one of ownership!

He was horrified at the saga and has decided to keep the bike for further investigation in consultation with the manufacturers and will not be returning it to me until he can guarantee that it will not break down with the same fault again.

If that assurance can not be given I will not pick the bike up and will pursue compensation on a legal basis.

Either-way, my time is at an end with this bike but I wouldn't dream of selling it on until I am satisfied that the problem has been resolved, even if fixed I will still take a huge hit on deprecation but if that means closure for me then so be it.

Despite my ownership of this bike proving to be a nightmare, it was my dream bike and I still have a lot of fondness for it, strange how they get you eh.

**PrincessBandit** · 11th January 2011, 10:10

#11 great martybabe - it's nice to hear of shop owners who "appear to be a reasonable chap" and seem to want to do the right thing by you. Hope it all works out well. And yes, I can understand that there might still be a nostalgic attraction to something even if it turns out to be a lemon!
All the best for the outcome.

**HenryDorsetCase** · 11th January 2011, 10:11

Originally Posted by martybabe

As an update for those of you kind enough to follow this sorry tale... I have just spoken to the manager of the dealership. He seems to be a reasonable chap and I explained the history of the bike including the breakdown on day one of ownership!

He was horrified at the saga and has decided to keep the bike for further investigation in consultation with the manufacturers and will not be returning it to me until he can guarantee that it will not break down with the same fault again.

If that assurance can not be given I will not pick the bike up and will pursue compensation on a legal basis.

Either-way, my time is at an end with this bike but I wouldn't dream of selling it on until I am satisfied that the problem has been resolved, even if fixed I will still take a huge hit on deprecation but if that means closure for me then so be it.

Despite my ownership of this bike proving to be a nightmare, it was my dream bike and I still have a lot of fondness for it, strange how they get you eh.

I guess the problem if it is electrical might be a bitch to find. People think of Harleys as agricultural, but they are just as high tech as any other new bike: immobiliser, EFI and all that palaver.

Want to do a deal on a Triumph Scrambler? (after yours is fixed.....)

are they lending you a bike to use in the meantime?

**Banditbandit** · 11th January 2011, 11:22

Originally Posted by martybabe

I bought a brand new bike in March 2010. To cut a long story short, the blasted thing has let me down on over 30 occasions. The dealer is some 350k away so getting it back to them is somewhat of a hassle, however, it has been returned to them twice, the latest visit has had it sitting in their workshop for 4 weeks and all they appear to have done is change the battery again because they can't find whatever the electrical problem is.

Sooo, having endured a hopelessly unreliable bike for nearly 10 months, 3 batteries and no guarantee it will ever start again once it has left the workshop, what are my options?

I'm not from NZ so the consumer protection laws (if there are any) are a mystery to me. I'm about to have words with the manager of the dealership but I would be better armed to do battle if I had an inkling of where I stood legally.

I'm not asking for Free lawyership here but if somebody can give me an idea of where I stand and where I start the inevitable battle for justice, it would be very gratefully appreciated.

Thanks Clever ones

Originally Posted by martybabe

As an update for those of you kind enough to follow this sorry tale... I have just spoken to the manager of the dealership. He seems to be a reasonable chap and I explained the history of the bike including the breakdown on day one of ownership!

He was horrified at the saga and has decided to keep the bike for further investigation in consultation with the manufacturers and will not be returning it to me until he can guarantee that it will not break down with the same fault again.

If that assurance can not be given I will not pick the bike up and will pursue compensation on a legal basis.

Either-way, my time is at an end with this bike but I wouldn't dream of selling it on until I am satisfied that the problem has been resolved, even if fixed I will still take a huge hit on deprecation but if that means closure for me then so be it.

Despite my ownership of this bike proving to be a nightmare, it was my dream bike and I still have a lot of fondness for it, strange how they get you eh.

You must have liked the bike when you bought it ... and it's your dream bike .. so ...

Have you tried Googling the problem to see if others have had it ...

Take it to another service place? If it's electrical, possibly an auto-electriocian ? Maybe the dealers your working witgh are lost .. but someone else might be able to help ...

If someone else can fix it maybe your dealer will front up the cost ?

(PS. If it's the BMW, get it fixed - if it's the Harley, get a refund ... )

**Crasherfromwayback** · 11th January 2011, 11:25

Originally Posted by martybabe

Yes it is the XR although my particular problems do not seem to be common with the model (from what I've read) so I'm not about to bag the model as such, in fact this is my fourth Harley and I've never had a bit of trouble with the others and it is a great ride (when it's running). There comes a time however when enough is enough, being stranded everywhere soon becomes a chore.

Dude...they've got 24/7 road side assist anyway! You should've been told that when you purchased it?