I've bought a lemon, what are my rights?

**martybabe** · 16th January 2011, 17:47

Originally Posted by Movistar

So far Mart, I reckon you've done the right thing.

Trust me, electrical problems can be a real nightmare to sort, I have had my share of these issues to sort out with brand new cars for many years, unfortunately, once you know what the solution is, it all seems so blindingly obvious...

Find out if the dealer is an MTA member, if so, they have an excellent, free mediation service.

I'm sure your patience is appreciated by the dealer, but keep the pressure on.
You are the customer after all, and it is your right to have a product that is reliable.

That's what you paid for.

It would not hurt for you to make HD aware also, the will have a customer assistance line and this will make sure the details are logged and followed up by them.
The dealer is probably dealing with the HD technical advisers, and I don't have first hand experience of their customer relationship policy, but some manufacturers technical departments are pathetic at dealing directly with the customers.
If you go through their customer assistance team, they generally will hound the technical guys to make sure things are progressing.

You can always hound the dealer for a loan bike of similar or equivalent type, no doubt there will be no requirement under the warranty from HD to provide this, but out of goodwill the dealer may come to the party.

Keep me in the loop Mart, as I said, I have been through this many times over recent years, and while it is frustrating, it all depends on how the dealer and manufacturer handle it...

Cheers Paul, I may be in touch if I don't get satisfaction soon.

As an update,I was informed the bike was running fine with the third battery in it, just like when it was replaced the second time,sigh. So one of the dealers took it home to see if there would be any problems the next morning. Guess what, I've heard nothing since, I'll bet ya $20 it didn't start for the return journey

. Part of the problem is convincing them that there is a problem, so whatever they tell me, they can keep it for a week or two, whether they use it or not, I can almost guarantee the 'problem' will return .

**Pussy** · 16th January 2011, 17:50

Sorry to hear you're having problems, Mart!

You still got the GSX 1400 to take care of your motorcycle fix?

**martybabe** · 16th January 2011, 19:53

Originally Posted by Pussy

Sorry to hear you're having problems, Mart!

You still got the GSX 1400 to take care of your motorcycle fix?

Aye it is a major shame, she's a hoot to ride till she breaks down again. No the Gsx was sold, I'm getting a daily fix on a beemer now, much more my type of bike, just such a pleasure to ride for miles and miles and miles

**pritch** · 17th January 2011, 06:32

Marty

Just came across this thread. Sorry to read your sad story. You did mention that there was a problem, but I didn't realise it was ongoing. It's a shame because otherwise that's a very nice bike.

**martybabe** · 17th January 2011, 06:43

Originally Posted by pritch

Marty

Just came across this thread. Sorry to read your sad story. You did mention that there was a problem, but I didn't realise it was ongoing. It's a shame because otherwise that's a very nice bike.

Cheers Ron, daft as it sounds I'm still happy with my choice of model, the XR1200 is exactly what I wanted. It just seems that my particular one is a stubborn unreliable son of a bitch bastard

**Movistar** · 19th January 2011, 18:42

Originally Posted by martybabe

Cheers Paul, I may be in touch if I don't get satisfaction soon.

As an update,I was informed the bike was running fine with the third battery in it, just like when it was replaced the second time,sigh. So one of the dealers took it home to see if there would be any problems the next morning. Guess what, I've heard nothing since, I'll bet ya $20 it didn't start for the return journey

. Part of the problem is convincing them that there is a problem, so whatever they tell me, they can keep it for a week or two, whether they use it or not, I can almost guarantee the 'problem' will return .

If it's had more than three batteries, it's not the battery that's at fault...but it could be...

Reminds me of VE Commodores. I lost count of how many batteries we charged and/or replaced and how much research we did on behalf of 'The General' to find out that the technology and calculations (and I mean an amazing amount) that go into determining how much current or voltage was being pumped back into the battery, and when, by the alternator that is controlled by the ECU was not causing the fault.
Nor was it the emense amount of electronic wizardy that drew current from the battery until all systems went to sleep, it was purely because the type of battery being used was not right (this is in very simplistic terms!).
On top of that, all dealers were sent a $1000 battery charger that all of a sudden became a "mandatory special tool', which turned out to be unnecessary.

Now, I don't know if other owners are experiencing the same problem, it would appear not.

Lets hope they are looking further than the battery for an answer...

**martybabe** · 19th January 2011, 20:29

Originally Posted by Movistar

If it's had more than three batteries, it's not the battery that's at fault...but it could be...

Reminds me of VE Commodores. I lost count of how many batteries we charged and/or replaced and how much research we did on behalf of 'The General' to find out that the technology and calculations (and I mean an amazing amount) that go into determining how much current or voltage was being pumped back into the battery, and when, by the alternator that is controlled by the ECU was not causing the fault.
Nor was it the emense amount of electronic wizardy that drew current from the battery until all systems went to sleep, it was purely because the type of battery being used was not right (this is in very simplistic terms!).
On top of that, all dealers were sent a $1000 battery charger that all of a sudden became a "mandatory special tool', which turned out to be unnecessary.

Now, I don't know if other owners are experiencing the same problem, it would appear not.

Lets hope they are looking further than the battery for an answer...

Indeed they are looking further...As e-mails fly between the dealer, Harley and me, It would appear that the Technicians from Harley are pointing the finger squarely at a faulty relay. All involved are confident that this is the cause of my woes. I however remain pessimistically hopeful

**scracha** · 19th January 2011, 20:55

Originally Posted by martybabe

Indeed they are looking further...As e-mails fly between the dealer, Harley and me, It would appear that the Technicians from Harley are pointing the finger squarely at a faulty relay. All involved are confident that this is the cause of my woes. I however remain pessimistically hopeful

I'm just curios...are they giving you a courtesy bike every time it fucks out? I mean, if this were a brand new car..........

**pete376403** · 19th January 2011, 21:19

Surely use of an ammeter would be able to pinpoint the current drain from the battery when the ignition is off. Disconnect items downstream of the battery (even just by pulling fuses) until the flow of current stops. The fault lies in that particular circuit. Electrics are a piece of piss but they do require methodical and logical troubleshooting (and a detailed wiring diagram helps)

Off the cuff guess - wiring has been pinched and there is a short to the frame somewhere. As it is intermittent I'd further guess its somewhere around the steering head, so it only occurs at a certain steering angle (such as full lock when the ignition is off/steering locked)

**martybabe** · 20th January 2011, 07:12

Originally Posted by scracha

I'm just curios...are they giving you a courtesy bike every time it fucks out? I mean, if this were a brand new car..........

It would be a nice gesture but no, if it had been a local dealer I would have made this more of an issue but I really can't be arsed to travel a 700k return journey with a crappy loan bike when I've got another bike at home anyway.

Originally Posted by pete376403

Surely use of an ammeter would be able to pinpoint the current drain from the battery when the ignition is off. Disconnect items downstream of the battery (even just by pulling fuses) until the flow of current stops. The fault lies in that particular circuit. Electrics are a piece of piss but they do require methodical and logical troubleshooting (and a detailed wiring diagram helps)

Off the cuff guess - wiring has been pinched and there is a short to the frame somewhere. As it is intermittent I'd further guess its somewhere around the steering head, so it only occurs at a certain steering angle (such as full lock when the ignition is off/steering locked)

I know nothing of automotive electric systems but to me. the battery is not getting charged and or the battery is losing it's charge by shorting out somewhere. I wouldn't have thought it would be that much of a problem to trace the issue? clearly I am wrong.

**Movistar** · 20th January 2011, 08:01

Originally Posted by martybabe

I know nothing of automotive electric systems but to me. the battery is not getting charged and or the battery is losing it's charge by shorting out somewhere. I wouldn't have thought it would be that much of a problem to trace the issue? clearly I am wrong.

Lets hope for a positive outcome Mart.
It's a bloody nice bike, as has already been said, and once it is cured of it's evil, will be yours to enjoy again without the niggling sensation you must get every time you go to start it!

Once you have it back, cured, we will celebrate with a monumental victory ride (of less than 200 km's so it doesn't run out of fuel

)

**Usarka** · 20th January 2011, 08:07

Originally Posted by scracha

I'm just curios...are they giving you a courtesy bike every time it fucks out? I mean, if this were a brand new car..........

Originally Posted by martybabe

It would be a nice gesture but no, if it had been a local dealer I would have made this more of an issue but I really can't be arsed to travel a 700k return journey with a crappy loan bike when I've got another bike at home anyway.

There is a provision in the CGA for consequential loss.........

But if they are cooperating and if there is light at the end of the tunnel (cross fingers) then one needs to weigh up the pros and cons of starting a shitfight (which i reckon you've balanced quite well with since starting this thread).

I hope it's a faulty relay and you get the bitch back in working order stat!

**kilgh** · 20th January 2011, 08:28

You are being very patient with these guys. In their very minor defence, it can be difficult to trace intermittant electrical faults. However as it can only be a certain amount of parts that could be going wrong any decent electrician would replace them one by one to see if the problem resolves. That's what they should be doing right now. Replace, test, replace, test.... Seriously are these guys qualified mechanics?

Don't forget if it all goes wrong again that a new series of "Target" and "Fair Go" will be filming. Possibly as we speak. And HD does not want the bad publicity going nationwide let alone the dealership.

TVNZ and TV3 websites will have links I'm sure.

**martybabe** · 20th January 2011, 10:12

Originally Posted by Movistar

Once you have it back, cured, we will celebrate with a monumental victory ride (of less than 200 km's so it doesn't run out of fuel

)

Sad but true, even 200k is pushing it, the beemer however is good for 400 ish ks, so book your time off I'm game.

I did read recently in a back to back test between a gsxr1000rrrr and the beemer rs that the BMW was superior to the Suzuki in terms of performance, handling, comfort and fuel range! Personally I can't see how they reached that conclusion, I don't think the Beemer is that comfortable

Sweet, ride soon

Originally Posted by Usarka

There is a provision in the CGA for consequential loss.........

But if they are cooperating and if there is light at the end of the tunnel (cross fingers) then one needs to weigh up the pros and cons of starting a shitfight (which i reckon you've balanced quite well with since starting this thread).

I hope it's a faulty relay and you get the bitch back in working order stat!

Cheers mate, I think I am being as reasonable as humanly possible, 5-6weeks in bike hospital though is testing my patience a tad.

Originally Posted by kilgh

Don't forget if it all goes wrong again that a new series of "Target" and "Fair Go" will be filming. Possibly as we speak. And HD does not want the bad publicity going nationwide let alone the dealership.

TVNZ and TV3 websites will have links I'm sure.

A bit early for calling on those guys services I feel but don't get me wrong, if it comes to a punch up I shall use every darned weapon at my disposal, hence this thread. Gather all options in my arsenal and hit them with a blitzkrieg. I do sincerely hope it doesn't come to that though.

**Movistar** · 20th January 2011, 11:58

Originally Posted by martybabe

Sad but true, even 200k is pushing it, the beemer however is good for 400 ish ks, so book your time off I'm game.

I did read recently in a back to back test between a gsxr1000rrrr and the beemer rs that the BMW was superior to the Suzuki in terms of performance, handling, comfort and fuel range! Personally I can't see how they reached that conclusion, I don't think the Beemer is that comfortable

Sweet, ride soon

They probably got two out of four right!

(looks like I'll be the one running out of fuel...)