Announcement on ACC funded $2m scheme

[Berries]

Fair point. I was under the impression that they were included but if the data collection is carried out correctly it should only be when a death occurs in a place with public access. However, two quad bike deaths in December were as a result of a farmer crashing through his fence and ending up on a road or rest area...............statistics............a wonderful thing!!

Those two as described should not be in the stats. But a farmer riding up the main road on his unregistered quad bike in the rain with his hood up and turning hard right in to his paddock just as a fully laden logging truck is overtaking, that'd be there.

The NZ database is a database of crashes that occur on public roads so includes a large number of MX bikes being "tested", as well as quite a few unregistered farm bikes. The problem arises when those stats are used to counter or support ACC statements, particularly if you just use the raw data. As a for instance, over the last ten years there has been a massive shift from beef and sheep farming to dairying which involves many more trips for the farm workers, often on bikes, more than likely unregistered. Does this influence the figures that get thrown around ? I bet you it does.

[scracha]

I made a promise to myself and a few close friends to not let this sort of personal insult on KB get to me anymore but you calling me and my hard working executive panel Motherfuckers is pathetic.

I and the people in BRONZ Wellington, as well as those who formed the Federation, have worked TIRELESSLY to ensure the MSL was not just absorbed into ACC's general accounts, and that AA never had a chance to manage it.
Not alone there either, WIMA, Ulysses, MNZ, HOG, Scootz NZ...all were involved and COMITTED to working on behalf of persons like you.

Work you're obviously too ignorant and lazy to take on for yourself.

Morons like you do NOTHING but bleat from the safety of thier computer desk and call other people who DO make a difference names, just because we couldnt gain 100% victory over the govt?
How much do you think it would have been without BIKEOI?

No wonder Les Mason stopped coming on KB...he must have put up with dickheads like YOU for years now... in all honesty I dont blame the man for leaving this place behind

You know who really sold US out Scratcha? Lazy pricks like YOU who just bleat and bitch about the 'unfair levies' while you do NOTHING at all to make a difference

You are simply pathetic
If your so concerned we let you down, go ride a motorcycle in the UK, or Germany, or Victoria...see how much THEY pay to use a motorcycle

Points taken on board Stoney. Too easy to be a keyboard warrior and I'm blaming the wrong people. I'm man enough to say I was bang out of order. Apologies.

[StoneY]

Points taken on board Stoney. Too easy to be a keyboard warrior and I'm blaming the wrong people. I'm man enough to say I was bang out of order. Apologies.

Accepted mate. And sorry for my grouchy reply....just been doing loads a work on this, touchy subject

Lets start again.......

We tried...we had some marginal successes as I see it
The levy is in place...next move is how we use it?

I hope me and the others tasked with that manage to do you all as much justice as we can squeeze from it

[Owl]

Morons like you do NOTHING but bleat from the safety of thier computer desk

It's not NOTHING, it's NOTHING MUCH!

[rustic101]

Head in the sand or have you got a source to back up those claims?
Land Transport's 2010 Factsheet is here and it looks like the majority are average joes...

I have and I can. However do me a favor, put in an OIA to the National Manager Road Policing and ask for; all events related to motorcycle accidents, fleeing riders and deaths. Specifically ask for the licence class, cc rating of the bike etc o the reason for fleeing, and make sure you ask for the number of bikes that were stolen.

My head is not in the sand, far from it actually.

[rustic101]

I only just caught this one Ken.
Late reply (but you could have called me to ask this one bro)

I do not get 'paid' for these meetings.
If the Government dept I am an employee of see's my time as valid use of taxpayer funds, I MAY get salary if I am lucky...somehow I doubt it will be the case.

All the Steering Group meetings I was paid a small fee for expenses, and got lunch.
The difference between my daily charge out then and my small fee for the meetings was $280.00 NZD

Now I am on salary back with a .govt.nz e-mail at work, I MIGHT get support from them in the form of getting salary pay.
Unlikely...totally different sector to ACC for me.

What councilors get:
We get our travel, and a feed.
I will lose about $210 per meeting day as it stands right now on my current earnings.

NO one is in this for the money.
NO ONE! We don't GET any

I cannot get BRONZ special treatment (in fact any BRONZ submission will be ultra scrutinized due to my role)
I cannot get a check made out to the local riding school, they too have to follow process.

Cheers for the reply StoneY, I found the answer in another thread.

My issue is not with the money, in fact thats actually a red hearing. I'm more concerned with the over all outcome! You no doubt have read my previous posts so I'm not going to beat that to death.

If I could offer you two words of advice they would be - keep your eyes and ears open with GM and the Minister and never forget where you came from..

Still waiting for that coffee

[ynot slow]

The bikoi on paper was a great way to voice concerns(note not using "our concerns" as this implies we all cared,some don't),but to me the govt were going to raise levies come what may and did.The only thing was how much,so the govt say we'll raise by $500 and if it's protested lower it by $50 and the plebs will be greatfull,hmmm bikoi saved us how much.

I'm not saying bikoi was a waist(no pies)of time,it got people thinking,how many ignorant owners of diesel vehicles are bleating now.No I never went on the bikoi,reason was starting a new job the Monday befor,but till then was certainly going on it.

My cynical view on msl is those who are on the panel are there in their interests for us,but also for themselves,i.e no one goes on a committee at a cost to them(sports club aside,school committees etc),i.e board members get paid,sure it may cost at present(wages lost vs renumeration gained) but further along the renumeration will make it financially viable,and the cynic in me and others spoken to agree.
And the cynics amongst us will say if another member is required the closed door boys club format will apply,much like govt embassy appointments(jobs for the boys)and afterall ACC is a govt agency.The fact the agency pays the running of msl is a mute point,the idea of only riders paying should be addressed,don't cars use roads and maybe they could do with bikers awareness courses.
I am keen to take any learning courses if available,as I believe we can all learn no matter whether it's driving,riding or in life general.

[Berries]

My cynical view on msl is those who are on the panel are there in their interests for us,but also for themselves,i.e no one goes on a committee at a cost to them(sports club aside,school committees etc),i.e board members get paid,sure it may cost at present(wages lost vs renumeration gained) but further along the renumeration will make it financially viable,and the cynic in me and others spoken to agree.

I'm a big cynic about most things, but I don't think you can accuse the MSL members of being it it for themselves. They all represent groups of various sizes, apart from the chair, and are in it for their members. I am sure they are of the view that they are in it for all riders as well, notwithstanding the fact that some cynics, like me, don't believe the MSL will make the slightest bit of difference to me and my riding safety and therefore think the levy is a complete crock.

[FJRider]

... notwithstanding the fact that some cynics, like me, don't believe the MSL will make the slightest bit of difference to me and my riding safety and therefore think the levy is a complete crock.

Depends on what measures are offered in the interest of "Motorcyclist safety" ...

Subsidized (or free) track days ... or at least a graded rider training program ( I doubt ALL of us can claim they know all there is to know ... )

GST removed from motorcycle safety gear ... (or at least import taxes)

Anybody else got any silly ideas that money could be spent on in the interest of Motorcycle safety ... ???

[riffer]

My cynical view on msl is those who are on the panel are there in their interests for us,but also for themselves,i.e no one goes on a committee at a cost to them(sports club aside,school committees etc),i.e board members get paid,sure it may cost at present(wages lost vs renumeration gained) but further along the renumeration will make it financially viable,and the cynic in me and others spoken to agree.

Look mate, this is getting boring.

Either supply evidence contradicting the statements made regarding remuneration, or GTFO. This debate has been done to death. No-one is getting rich off the MSL, okay?

The people who are there are GENUINELY doing it because they want to make a difference. Continuing these slanderous accusations is both making you look like a twat and detracting from the main message.

[Pixie]

And so begins the rot from the uneducated. Allow me to add some sanity to the mix:

There's a number of other names there who deserve mention:

Paul Searancke, Deputy Chairperson (Commissioner: Recreation/Leisure of Motorcycling New Zealand)
Was heard to boast to a cab driver of my acquaintance that the MSL delegates had signed (ssshhh) a confidentiality agreement with the govt.(mustn't let the biking masses know what's going on)And boasted that he had Nick the Prick's private number on his cell phone
Peter McIntosh (President Ulysses Club of NZ Inc)
Wanted to exclude off road bikes from all MSL activities
Yvonne Forrest (Representative of Women's International Motorcycle Association)
Bill Grice (former Chairman of the Motor Industry Association Motorcycle Division)
Brent Hutchison (President of Wellington branch of Bikers Rights Organisation of NZ)
Jess Corbett (Representative of Scoot NZ and the NZ Classic Scooter Club)

You have a representative from MNZ, a representative from Ulysses, a representative from WIMA, a representative from the Motor Industry, a representative from BRONZ, and a representative from the Scroters.

Led by a person who has an enviable record in New Zealand business and with quite a bit of economic nous too - and who's done some pretty cool biking.

The MSF will work through the government's GETZ tendering programme - which means it's totally transparent.

We all have access to StoneY here on KB - and as a friend of mine I know how committed he is to ensuring motorcyclists are put first. Say what you like about Peter Mac but there's no arguing the organisation he represents represent a large proportion of motorcyclists.

I'm just stoked that Mike Noon wasn't allowed on the committee. I wouldn't have been happy about that.

See above....

[Pixie]

WRB's are only responsible for one motorcycling fatality in this country that I'm aware of. That, and that in order to actually to hit one, a rider must already be in the shit -and that shit won't be as a result of the WRB being there. Root cause and all that.

So we'll line the roads with broken glass and used saw blades because the only way they'll hurt you is if you are already "in the shit"

+1 Mister Genius

Even the "Safer Roads" initiative disagrees with you

[avgas]

Look mate, this is getting boring.

Either supply evidence contradicting the statements made regarding remuneration, or GTFO. This debate has been done to death. No-one is getting rich off the MSL, okay?

The people who are there are GENUINELY doing it because they want to make a difference. Continuing these slanderous accusations is both making you look like a twat and detracting from the main message.

I agree there is no evidence.
However I also have to agree with the concept that not everyone on that panel will being doing it out of the good of their heart.

All we can do is hope that their goals are inline with out own (or don't affect the overall outcome), and that motorcycling in NZ benefits on a whole (even if its a side effect).

While I don't think money is there for most, I imagine the possibility for some may be there. But the more likely situation is people like the respect etc that comes with the role.

.....however in saying that I am sure that we will all recall a recent presentation where 1 man decided it was a good idea to speak on "behalf of all NZ motorcyclists"......

so yeah - tough 1 really

[Pixie]

Just watched the reply of this article on the TV One web site, nice one Mom.

As for Petra, who the fuck does she think she is, skinny little tart....that woman needs a big black dog up her and a family size mince and cheese in her, I quote:

....maybe put on a bit of weight......

Thats extreme weightism that is...how many fat bikers have caused accidents? I'll tell you, none....the only accidents we have is when we eat a dodgy Mrs Macs at a servo, hit a bump in the road an hour later and have an 'accident' of the pants variety....

So fuck off Petra, what do you know......

Rant over, oooh look a servo, wonder do they have a pie warmer...???

There,there here's a nice pie to settle you down.

....leave Ms Bagpuss alone

[Pixie]

I'm a member of BRONZ, I'm a member of MAG-NZ. I ride a bike. I drive a car. Who paid for the motorcycle campaigns of yesteryear? Who paid for the Enjoy the Ride campaign?

If ACC were truly concerned with reducing the accident rates, they'd have a single safety levy, charging $10 on all vehicles. That would drastically swell the safety fund for ALL road users, no bias towards user groups etc...

On that basis I find the MSL utterly insulting to my limited intelligence. But the MSL exists and hopefully will save a life or two, although I highly doubt it will be solely responsible for doing that. I would imagine that everyone on the MSL Committee also drives a car and therefore has the best intentions towards all road users by default. So why limit it to motorcycles?

If we're 50/50, in regards to blame for accidents involving motorcycles, then why the seperate levy? Even if we tidy up our act 100%, we'll still be dying at the hands of the drivers... It will then be 100% the cars fault. Then what? Erm...

It's a pathetic levy that serves no purpose other than to single motorcyclists out and charge them for it... as if the higher levies haven't already done so for years.

I'm pretty fuckin disappointed that the MSL was allowed, let alone conceived...

It was in the Govt.s interest and the ACC Board of National Stooges to create a diversion by getting a group riled up over ACC levies.That group could have been any ACC contributors ,but it turned out that Bikers where found to be the most likely to cause a stink (slightly less asleep that the average Kiwi).

The diversion was needed to draw attention to changes National wanted to make to ACC to help sell it off.

You've all done a very good job - keep up the good work.

-Uncle Nick