Announcement on ACC funded $2m scheme

[riffer]

Morning Riffer,

Do you know, have you heard if individuals on the MSL group will be paid or receive any financial gain from the fund or Govt? If so how much, or is their involvement purely voluntarily out of love for the cause?

Hey rustic101. I've got no idea. Why don't you ask Stoney since he's a member?

I believe it would be naive to suggest they're doing it for free though. Generally how these things work are that a member is paid for attendance at meetings. If I had to speculate I'd suggest this is how it's done.

[p.dath]

Hey rustic101. I've got no idea. Why don't you ask Stoney since he's a member?

I believe it would be naive to suggest they're doing it for free though. Generally how these things work are that a member is paid for attendance at meetings. If I had to speculate I'd suggest this is how it's done.

+1. I would expect it to be paid. You get what you pay for, sometimes.

[bogan]

Existing initiatives do... Having $30 back in your pocket would benefit A motorcyclist, not necessarily motorcyclistS

and how long before the existing initiative also have to come out of the MSL? The MSL is setting a precedent for future hikes imo. Also, the other motorcyclistS could also be given thier 30 buck back too

[Berries]

We know there's a certain part of a road that's generating a problem, for whatever reason. We make submissions to the MSF. The MSF agrees and commissions an engineering report for Transit to create a realignment on the road. Said report raises the stakes for Transit causing the road realignment to be brought forward as it's a "safety" issue.

End result, a spot which was potentially hazardous to motorcyclists becomes sorted a lot faster.

If the problem being generated generates crashes, then this is what NZTA actually do. If one corner has ten crashes involving cars on it and another has two involving bikes then the former will be treated first. If there is a corner out there that has had ten crashes involving bikes then I would be surprised if nothing had happened to try and improve it - if NZTA are aware of it. Luckily realignments are expensive, most of them take out the good bits. Tumai overbridge anyone ?

If you are talking of potentially hazardous sites then they are going to be stuck on a list behind sites that do have a crash history. I know of several sections of road down here that NZTA would like to realign, due to both serious and fatal motorbike crashes. They just don't have the money so have to do piecemeal improvements instead.

Going back to the MSL group though. I thought MSL was the Motorcycle Safety Levy Advisory Council and were tasked with directing how the levy income should be spent. I don't see how that gives them any more influence over NZTA than any of the other representative bodies out there like BRONZ. Are you implying that the $30 levy could be used to commission reports ? For a number of reasons, I see that as very poor use of the fund.

Also, for anyone who might know, I notice that the NZTA rep who was on the MSL establishment group has now been dropped. Should anything be read in to that ?

[riffer]

Also, for anyone who might know, I notice that the NZTA rep who was on the MSL establishment group has now been dropped. Should anything be read in to that ?

Probably not. Firstly, Jim Furneaux could be construed to have have a conflict of interest by being on this group. Also, as a motorcyclist I believe he's a member of Ulysses, whose purposes are served here by Peter Mac.

But I get you. I wold have like to have seen Jim on the group too.

[riffer]

And please guys, don't take my posts as being totally informative. I know as much as you do, and I'm speculating as much as you. To find out more, please talk to the people who are on this group.

Of course Stoney will probably kill me now as his inbox is going to go mental... LOL

[Paul in NZ]

I have a VERY bad feeling about this. I'm sure all these worthies are fine upstanding people despite at least two of them treating me a little shabbily (IMHO) in the past. Hey - shit happens and I'm not exactly your mainstream biker type.

What worries me is who looks out for the thousands who dont buy new bikes and dont use bike shops much? Last time I asked about a training course it was all good until I mentioned I was going to turn up on a 40+ year old bike.... um....

I dont want to ride around africa or attend a track day - I just want to bubble along slowly on my old shitters.... cheaply....

[eelracing]

I'm not exactly your mainstream biker type.

What worries me is who looks out for the thousands who dont buy new bikes and dont use bike shops much? Last time I asked about a training course it was all good until I mentioned I was going to turn up on a 40+ year old bike.... um....

I dont want to ride around africa or attend a track day - I just want to bubble along slowly on my old shitters.... cheaply....

Mainstream biker type?...no such thing I reckon.

But check this outfit out,they are offering an excellent course and $50 to $95 off the price (ACC subsidised)to Wanganui/Manawatu riders.

http://www.prorider.co.nz/motorcycle...s.php?course=4

[riffer]

and how long before the existing initiative also have to come out of the MSL? The MSL is setting a precedent for future hikes imo. Also, the other motorcyclistS could also be given thier 30 buck back too

OFFS!!!

Are you advocating an opt-in system here, where some pay, some don't but coverage is extended to all? That kid of crap is the reason I stood up on Parliament steps and shouted to the world not so long ago.

Have you paid ANY attention to the creation of the MSL? Or are you simply talking straight out of your arse? Go back and read some of the work that's been done.

Come on bogan, you can do better than this!

[bogan]

OFFS!!!

Are you advocating an opt-in system here, where some pay, some don't but coverage is extended to all? That kid of crap is the reason I stood up on Parliament steps and shouted to the world not so long ago.

Have you paid ANY attention to the creation of the MSL? Or are you simply talking straight out of your arse? Go back and read some of the work that's been done.

Come on bogan, you can do better than this!

I would like to see biker safety campaigns paid from the general fund, ie the same as for cages and other road users. I'll ask again, is there any reason why these motorcycle safety initiatives shouldn't be coming from the same fund as cage safety initiatives?

[paulmac:Me]

My 2 cents: If someone is offering subsidised I'd be taking it ! I've been riding for 25+ years and recently did my first track day. Learnt f**ckin heaps too !!
Might see if the South taranaki council want to be involved like manawatu and wanganui seem to be !

[Squiggles]

I'll ask again, is there any reason why these motorcycle safety initiatives shouldn't be coming from the same fund as cage safety initiatives?

They do but you've probably seen sfa of them as there aint alot of $$ to go around...

[Mom]

I will be appearing as the President of MAG-NZ on Breakfast tomorrow morning defending our stand against the MSL. Early as though, about 7:10, so dont miss it.

MAG-NZ is opposed to the Motorcycle Safety Levy

MAG-NZ is opposed to the Motorcycle Safety Levy (MSL) due to the discriminatory funding model it is based on, and believes any motorcycle specific campaigns should be funded from the general account as other campaigns are. We intend to help ACC achieve their target of lowering motorcycle accidents by highlighting roads for improvement, and encouraging the provision and participation in rider training courses, for both learner and experienced motorcyclists, and reducing the severity of remaining accidents by promoting the use motorcycle friendly road furniture.

Motorcycle Action Group of New Zealand Inc, (MAG-NZ) believes that as private road users we all have a right to travel and enjoy our great country – whether we chose to drive a car, van or 4x4, or ride a motorcycle, scooter or trike – we should all be equal on our roads.

Because the MSL is based on an inequality of road users, MAG-NZ cannot support it. Additionally the ACC levy increase from which the MSL is collected is based on inconsistent and heavily manipulated statistics. The establishment of such a group undermines the "No Fault" principles on which ACC was founded, and puts the scheme in danger of becoming simply “Victim Pays”.

The MSL has been introduced along with the heavily opposed increase in levies as an additional charge; ostensibly to be channeled towards “safety initiatives”. A number of representatives from motorcycling groups are currently proposing how the funding could be spent to benefit their members and the wider motorcycling community. MAG-NZ will not have any representation in the MSL establishment group; now, or at any time in the future, due to the reasons outlined above.

MAG-NZ is currently taking action to work with local authorities and alongside regional ACC offices to provide for tangible, meaningful and measurable improvement in safety for motorcyclists. Utilising proactive, effective ACTION along with member contribution, donations and sponsorship, MAG-NZ hopes to achieve significantly more than the MSL or any other mandatory or penalty based schemes will ever be able to.

[Usarka]

Motorcycle Action Group of New Zealand Inc, (MAG-NZ) believes that as private road users we all have a right to travel and enjoy our great country – whether we chose to drive a car, van or 4x4, or ride a motorcycle, scooter or trike – we should all be equal on our roads.

Incl cyclists, horse riders, and pedestrians.

[Mom]

So there's $2 million to be spent on "motorcycle safety". I hope this isn't wasted on advertising campaigns that are used to either irritate or bore senseless, like the rest of the dosh Government already squanders on road safety publicity.

There is some hearsay evidence that no discussions on how the MSL is divided up is allowed, though that is denied by members of that committee.

What of substance, relevance and value can be provided to the motorcycling community for $2 million? I'm keen to learn, as I am completely stumped for ideas myself.

Absolutely nothing!

Especially after expenses are levied against the fund. I read that all expenses are paid from general funds. But, clever accounting will ensure that expenses find there way to the "BIKER CRASH" fund.

Cancer - 146/week
Suicide - 10/week
Cars - 7/week
Bikes - 1/week
Murder - 0.9/week

Ooooohhhh those damn bikers! Unacceptable!!

Can you back those numbers up? I like them.

Victoria has a similar number of riders and accidents to us so your best bet would be to look at what they've done with the money... (They collect ~$60 per motorcycle owner)

$60!!!! They better not try that here!

It is probably based around using the $50 training vouchers ACC give out (for use at approved training courses).

Among other things that ACC already fund.

These so called "Safety Programs"...what are they?...where are they?...how do they work?

What a crock of BS (nicely put Avgas) once again I seemed to have missed why I am being taxed $30 a year for something...that something I am really not sure what.

It is discrimination, pure and simple.

I hope I am going to be told personally what is happening with my $30 and not have to read about it on a forum. Be good to know who is going to get the benefit from my hard earned.

Dont hold your breath.