MSL Council to be lead by Gareth Morgan

[Ocean1]

rather than a fallacy argument as you've posted (appeal to your own authority), please explain why that test is 'utter drivel'

In fact the rational is far more compelling than my own opinion in the matter. I simply refer to the certain knowledge that anything you propose is seriously flawed.

I caved and did the test
apparently I am Nelson Mandela

IMHO the test is far to simple to have any use to me and I have no idea what propaganda is behind the website or how it comes to its conclusions

It's old. You can find dozens such "political roadmaps" on teh internets, even one to support ol' oneye's somewhat damp and sticky proclivities.

[idleidolidyll]

and spewing off as much radiation and noise......
Ah...the test....where I sit, Ghandi is a bloody authoritarian right winger.....

having corresponded in the past, i'd have expected nothing less

[idleidolidyll]

In fact the rational is far more compelling than my own opinion in the matter. I simply refer to the certain knowledge that anything you propose is seriously flawed.



It's old. You can find dozens such "political roadmaps" on teh internets, even one to support ol' oneye's somewhat damp and sticky proclivities.

Simple fallacy argument with no tangible evidence or examples: your ramblings therefore become mere hear-say and can be totally ignored as if you were merely a National toady parroting the ir opinion.

Faced with media and politicians who cling to an even more simplistic and irrelevant model, I choose to provide some idea of at least one important axis not generally considered in public: the authoritarian/liberal divide.

You choose to stick with the simplest jingo of left/right while crying that a more accurate system is invalid somehow.

If I'm wrong, please provide us all with a more accurate theory or measurement

[p.dath]

I doubt Gareth Morgan is working for lunch money, though am happy to be contradicted.

As I understand it, no council member is being paid. They are all donating their time.

There is also adminstrative expenses, and advertising expenses, and meeting fees, and transport costs and on and on and on...

These expenses are being funded by ACC via what levy?

I'll *guess*, and say that it is coming out of Governmental departmental funding, like most other departments, as opposed to being funded by the levies. But that is a guess.

If it makes you feel better think of it this way - your paying for it no matter what - either via direct taxation or via some imposed levy - but you'll be paying for it. So I guess the question then becomes how do you want to pay for it?

What happens to the funding ACC already provide to training providers to subsidise training sessions? Picking that will dry up too.

Only time will tell. Don't forget that a lot of the funding the training providers were getting also came from local councils, and not just ACC.

Hey Mom, if your keen, I help out with the free NASS sessions on the North Shore. I have invited ACC and the Auckland Transport Road Safety Coordinator along this Wednesday. Your more than welcome to give us a visit if you like.
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...post1129972416
You could ask them some questions directly if you like - just be friendly . I'm trying to get them to help us out and be supportive of our motorcycle training.

ps. The motorcycle highway police patrol officers come along to the car park sometimes as well (I asked them to, and have the permission of the Police Road Policing Manager), so we encourage riders to have a registered WOF'd bike.

So now we have a dedicated MSL of $30 per registered motorcycle. Anecdotealy we hear that people are not registering their bikes. The amount expected to be collected if I recall correctly was around 6 million dollars. This has now had to be revised to $2.7m I think Gareth Morgan said last Monday. I would dearly love to find out how much ACC currently spend on the Look out for bikes campaign and the like.

I've considered the issue of non-registered bikes distorting the picture. Its very hard to know what you don't know, and we don't know the size of this rider group.

I believe StoneY is pro "rider" licensing, as opposed to individual bike licensing. But these kinds of changes take a long time. But perhaps if the council can make a positive difference they might be able to effect change.

The per-rider licencing does have a side effect that others may have missed. If ACC decide they need $30m for the motorcycle levies for the year, and there are currently 100,000 bikes, and 50,000 riders, then obviously all those with a single bike will pay a lot more, and all those with lots of bikes will pay a lot less.
Making a fair system is not easy, and will always leave some people disadvantaged.

Personally, I want the original ACC system back ...

[MSTRS:Me]

Personally, I want the original ACC system back ...

That's all you needed to say...and all that needs to be said.

[Katman]

Personally, I want the original ACC system back ...

Then perhaps we need to work on getting society back to one that appreciates what it's given rather than one that looks for every way to rip the system off.

[p.dath]

Then perhaps we need to work on getting society back to one that appreciates what it's given rather than one that looks for every way to rip the system off.

Hmm. Perhaps we need a "successful" recession. Loosing everything you have certainly makes you more appreciative.

[avgas]

Stoney: any news or progress to enlighten us with?

transparency is the key to quell building unrest.

Help us out stoney - we trust you. What Mom said - its only a riot after the quiet.

Repeat your post and change the word national for labour and you would be as accurate (at least)

Both the main parties have an agenda and also have members who would like more extreme solutions.

Pig shit skinks as bad as cow shit.
Politics is shit.
To think anyone's shit don't stink attracts people to one side or the other.

[avgas]

Then perhaps we need to work on getting society back to one that appreciates what it's given rather than one that looks for every way to rip the system off.

You mean like 1986?
12 months later it was worse.

[Katman]

You mean like 1986?
12 months later it was worse.

I'd suggest we were a better society 20 years before that.

[fossil]

I have a concern. I understand and appreciate that all MSL levies collected will be administered by this Gareth Morgan led council without any of it being diverted into paying the expenses of running the council. What I am concerned about though, and despite protestations otherwise, this council will have substantial expenses, I doubt Gareth Morgan is working for lunch money, though am happy to be contradicted. There is also adminstrative expenses, and advertising expenses, and meeting fees, and transport costs and on and on and on...

These expenses are being funded by ACC via what levy? I am picking the motorcycle levy, or at very least the motorvehicle levy. So now we have a levy that we dont actually need, being administered at extra cost to bikers in the long run. What happens to the funding ACC already provide to training providers to subsidise training sessions? Picking that will dry up too.

So now we have a dedicated MSL of $30 per registered motorcycle. Anecdotealy we hear that people are not registering their bikes. The amount expected to be collected if I recall correctly was around 6 million dollars. This has now had to be revised to $2.7m I think Gareth Morgan said last Monday. I would dearly love to find out how much ACC currently spend on the Look out for bikes campaign and the like.

Hi Anne,
You can request information from ACC using the freedom of information act or there is information on the ACC website which answers most of the things you raise.
www.acc.co.nz Then under the "individuals" heading click motorcyclists, you can subscribe to receive updates.

[riffer]

I'd suggest we were a better society 20 years before that.

I wish I knew. Unfortunately I wasn't born until the following year.

[Katman]

I wish I knew. Unfortunately I wasn't born until the following year.

Hey, I'm only guessing. I was only 2 in 1966.

[riffer]

Hey, I'm only guessing. I was only 2 in 1966.

Are you suggesting it was OUR generation that caused the rot mate?

[Katman]

Are you suggesting it was OUR generation that caused the rot mate?

From the day that the original ACC presented it's manifesto New Zealanders learnt ways to use the system. Whether the rot was there beforehand or started with our generation is subject to conjecture.