Speeding ticket question

[Crazy Steve]

I have sent the standard “deny liability and am not guilty of this offence and request a court hearing” letter .
So once I get a court date I will submit an affidavit but wont be appearing in the Marton court... at least I will keep this guy of the road a while and any court cost are not so much a worry its as I said in the other posts its the demerits that suck arse.
I think his Mum may be the Marton Judge.....

Video conferance me thinks ! From your closes Court to the Marton Court ! !

Crazy Steve.

[Gubb]

Who said precedents of cases heard in the district court are not binding on other courts or set no precedent? They are absolutely binding. That is the whole concept of a 'common law' judiciary as opposed to a codified 'civil law' country like the USA for example. The only difference is this - that the 'stare decisis' or legal precedent of a case is only binding on lower courts and only ' persuasive' in nature to courts of similar or superior hierarchy. Eg. Supreme court's precedent is binding on High Courts and District Courts. However, district courts precedent is not necessarily "binding" on a High Court. However, a High Court judge would have to explain his deviation from the District Court decision absolutely as every case make law and hence governs the future in this country. I will quote you a page and book name from my post grad law book if you need. Furthermore, even a decision in another English speaking commonwealth (especially a House of Lords or Court of Appeal decision) is very persuasive to courts in NZ. A lot of NZ law actually comes from the UK, Australia and Canada and judges have followed a myriad of decisions from around the English speaking world, especially if the case is a first for NZ.

Boom thank you Mr Officer, Brendon on the merits of the previous cases mentioned in Davereid's post (just track down the case numbers and which court and judge presided over them) and you'll walk in and out of court (not dissimilar to the time we got pinged for 139 or whatever it was). You were not speeding were you? No, didn't think so. Anyone reading this thread can also use these cases. Therefore, whenever a cop pings you for a speed over indicated you will walk, forever more, unless a higher court overrules that decision.

The "bad" cops like Rodney's ol Ginga count on a common man's ignorance of the law and really dislike people who know half the law. Hence I studied 2 years of it after university. Sure there were other motivating factors but 'black letter law' is something that everyone in business should know, saves you a lot of money in legal fees when you know what you are talking about.

The End.

Alright. Own up. Who's hacking Raj's account?

[Mad-V2]

I'm pretty sure that if you want to plead not guilty to an offense, you have to travel to the original town the offense took place to do so. I was accused of insecure loading whilst in oamaru, and when I rung them to change the proceedings to Taupo court I was told I can't plead not guilty as the police officer would have to travel to Taupo and if I wanted to, I would have to go down there. I just paid the fine.

[Coldrider]

Ratio decidendi
District Court decisions are not binding on other District Court decisions.
High Court decisions are not binding on other High Court decisions.
High Court decisions are binding on District Court decisions.
Court of Appeal decisions are binding on themselves and all lower courts, unless that conflicts with the House of Lords, or is Per incuriam.

Threw the weetbix cards out.

[pete376403]

(Article snipped)
...A senior police official said complaints over lack of evidence "presupposed police were liars".

"These are sworn officers who gain no benefit from making things up."

If they have a quota, and making (or not making) quota has a bearing on their career, then, yes, they do have a benefit from making things up.

[davereid]

SNIP...High Court decisions are binding on District Court decisions...

So the 1996 High Court Decision would be binding on the District Court ?

The OP needs find the details of that decision - I guess there is a mechanisim for looking them up .

Anyone know how to do it?

[Cr1MiNaL]

So the 1996 High Court Decision would be binding on the District Court ?

The OP needs find the details of that decision - I guess there is a mechanisim for looking them up .

Anyone know how to do it?

Anyone who wants it should look up the NZLR database. It is free of charge. Yes the ratio descendi (or precedent that arises from that case) of superior courts is binding on subordinate courts, but to courts of the same hierarchy is not binding but very persuasive (this is called stare decisis).

[davereid]

Anyone who wants it should look up the NZLR database. It is free of charge.

Can you point me at it ? Googles' "I'm lucky" was not very lucky....

[Cr1MiNaL]

Can you point me at it ? Googles' "I'm lucky" was not very lucky....

Try this http://www.library.auckland.ac.nz/da...p?record=LexNZ LexisNexis is very good. Or the Auckland University one http://library.auckland.ac.nz/subjects/law/law.htm Otago have a very good one too. So do most of the top universities.

[Jantar]

If anyone can find a reference to this high court case, or any other motorcycling case that may be used as a precedent, I'll put them into a seperate thread and make it a sticky.

Eg. If Mad-V2 could pm me the details of his case it would show in a legal sticky thread as:
Crown Vs Mad-V2. Taupo District Court. Date.
Brief details.

[racefactory]

Criminal-

I find it hard to understand the finer points of what you said.

So am I correct in saying the thing to take away is if you get busted by a cop for going over the speed limit, but don't get locked in (which is highly likely with our bikes) then as long as you deny the charge bluntly and don't mention anything else in connection to your speed... you will get off?

What if he locks you in over the speed limit but tickets you for doing a lot more? Is it game over in this case?

What I am also interested to know is what happens if the same thing happens but you are riding a bike with incorrect license or no rego? Is this treated as a separate charge and therefore will have no relevance to the speeding and your chances of getting off?

Much appreciated.

[Cr1MiNaL]

Criminal-

I find it hard to understand the finer points of what you said.

So am I correct in saying the thing to take away is if you get busted by a cop for going over the speed limit, but don't get locked in (which is highly likely with our bikes) then as long as you deny the charge bluntly and don't mention anything else in connection to your speed... you will get off?

What if he locks you in over the speed limit but tickets you for doing a lot more? Is it game over in this case?

What I am also interested to know is what happens if the same thing happens but you are riding a bike with incorrect license or no rego? Is this treated as a separate charge and therefore will have no relevance to the speeding and your chances of getting off?

Much appreciated.

Firstly my disclaimer: Just so we are clear I am not a lawyer, only a law graduate (actually still have to pass my last post grad law paper yet) neither do I advocate speeding or riding like a lunatic in built up zones etc. I am not saying you should lie to the police! Never. The purpose of my post was only to clarify the legal terms of the law, as I was taught and understood it for the benefit of all bikers. How you choose to use that information - like anything else in life is your responsibility. I cannot be held liable for the actions that might arise from following the points raised in any of my posts on here. The points raised in my posts are my opinion only and do not reflect anyone else whether I be employed by, or be associated with thereof.

Having fully understood that, if there is a case that a biker won in the past, no he cannot lock you in for one speed and ticket you for a higher one saying he "observed" it. Well he can, you will go to court and will likely be let off if you present the case and research before hand. You need the case reference number and need to be a confident speaker. Stick to the facts and don't speak when not spoken to is my experience. Also I've always paid fines where I was actually speeding, it's just the ones that were clearly 'disdainful' in nature that I have fought and won. If you ride with a wrong lisence then that is just asking for it I cannot support that. Just because we are bikers does not make us outlaws. Obey the law, just use your brain- many fair cops will tell you 'time place circumstance' just remember that. They are only doing their jobs at the end of the day. Don't try and work the system when you are wrong, you'll only get on the bad side of the law.

[Mad-V2]

My case was around 5 - 6 years ago and I was also pinged for wrong class of license, no reg and no warrant which I had to pay for. Those were separate charges which were not brought up in court, as I was there for my so called speeding charge. I have paid alot of fines and been to court more often than I would like to remember but I have also gotten off a $700 fine when I was 10, a drunk driving charge at 16 and a dangerous driving charge at 18. All Wanganui cops thinking they are God, finding out that they are not. Lawyers are useful no matter what anyone says.
The best thing you can do is talk to a lawyer or solicitor and go from there, Its well worth the effort.

[racefactory]

That's interesting to know. I would have thought if you didn't have wof, rego and a license the court wouldn't have taken a word from you!!! Amazing.

[Mad-V2]

It was never mentioned as they are instant fines, and I was there for speeding only. However, If I had been involved in an accident....I would've been screwed.
I was there purely to defend myself in the speeding charge, nothing else.