Hardcore Biker
While i have no idea if he is an inside man, he lost a lot of my respect when he stated on TV that "statistics dont lie" and the BAB accidents were a mjaor cause of the so called rise in acidents/deathOriginally Posted by phill-k
In my experience statistics rarely tell the truth unless you use them without an agenda and with an open analytical mind
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Knowledge is realizing that the street is one-way, wisdom is looking both directions anyway
Bogeyman
Correct. But again, that increase was concurrent with a lower relative rise in both fatalities and injuries. Inescapable conclusion is that the returnees are safer riders.
Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon
Bogeyman
So I noticed. He's susceptible to bullshit. Doubt he’s a “plant” in the classic sense, though.
Yup. See above.
Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon
Loud and Uncouth
Paul, you can get a parallel experience at a South Island motorbike raly.
And the fishing is even worse.
Winding up drongos, foil hat wearers and over sensitive KBers for over 14,000 posts...........
" Life is not a rehearsal, it's as happy or miserable as you want to make it"
The instructions are simple...
Statistics on their own don't lie. However, statistics are always compiled to tell a story, one which is achieved by manipulating raw data into certain 'shapes'. And then using that to illustrate a point that one has pre-determined.
ie 52% of biker fatalities are 6F - therefore, having a full licence is dangerous. What is omitted is there are many more 6F holder than 6L or R. But that's not the point for someone who wants to ban the 6F level for motorcycle riders.
Last edited by MSTRS; 28th January 2011 at 16:36.
Do you realise how many holes there could be if people would just take the time to take the dirt out of them?
The instructions are simple...
Looks exactly like that to me too.
I don't think such a collation exists, but a comparison of age/licence level deaths over the years, also factored by bike numbers and total number of class 6 licence holders, might prove it.
Do you realise how many holes there could be if people would just take the time to take the dirt out of them?
Whip it, whip it good!
Not really a fair summation of the conversation I had with him to be fair. They wanted a counter argument, I could give them one, and I was pleased tpo be able to do so. MAG-NZ is opposed to the MSL, has been from the beginning and I cant for a moment seeing our stance changing on that.
Meh...
The questions did not lead to a stoush though, I talked at length with the evening producer (Paul) about our stance and what we wanted to see, he was the one keen to have an alternative viewpoint aired. There was little chance that it was going to become an on air argument anyway from my perspective anyway.
I missed the rest of the programme, I will be a little bit ticked off if that is what he said. How do I find out? That is so out of line I will personally tackle him about it.
I dont think there is anyone not clear on what the MSL is, it surprises me that there is so much emphasis on re assurring us that none of the money gathered in the name of MSL will be spent on the administration of the fund, if fact I would call it almost a defensive stance.
Particularly when there is funding already available for ACC Accident Prevention Officers to partially fund/support rider education and safety initiatives right now. We dont need an MSL at all.
I am still camping at the beach...
Sort of, we are home to take kids to meet planes tomorrow, otherwise we are at the beach and away from computers...
Fishing eh? I love fishing, pity of it is I am alone on that score...
Rest In Peace
Case and point.New years eve at the South Taranaki Club,talking to three guys,all from 57-62yrs old and thinking of getting back or starting riding.One had ridden on farms so could ride a bit,had limited riding on road although has a class 6 license,other 2 no experience,but both had class 6,one had his class 6 due to cop giving him it by mistake back in 1966 or so lol.I commented that's just what we want not,as all said they'd be buying bikes to pillion on,Harleys mentioned,ironic as one was a funeral director,and hated his son on bikes 15-20 yrs ago.
Hello officer put it on my tab
Don't steal the government hates competition.
on the up
ON the face of the figures, it would appear hard to argue that the only group to show a rise in deaths is the 40+ age group. However I would be prepared to argue that based on the motorcycling demographs - our motorcycling population is increasingly represented by people of that age group.
What interests me is a graph further on in the motorcycle crash fact sheet 2010 that points out recorded cc ratings for crashes.
0-49cc (increasing from 15-17% of all crashes)
60-250cc (increasing from 15-17% of all crashes)
750cc-999cc (marginal increase 14-15%)
250cc-499cc has seen a huge drop from 25% to 9% of all crashes
500-749cc has seen a drop from 10%-7%
1000cc+ increasing over the last ten years from 17% to 21%
Now I know this is primarily because of the types of motorcycles sold in NZ over the last ten years changing - if we did this forty years ago there'd be almost no crashes over 650cc - and I wonder if there isn't ammunition here for us.
The way I see it - it's like the speed ad where the father is told by the copper that they're concentrating on people speed a few kms over "because that's where most of the crashes occur Sir."
You see, most of those crashes occur at that speed because that's the speed most of the people drive at.
Likewise, blaming larger cc bikes and older riders for the problem fails to take into account that this is the largest group of motorcyclists.
I'm going to have a think about this one.
And I to my motorcycle parked like the soul of the junkyard. Restored, a bicycle fleshed with power, and tore off. Up Highway 106 continually drunk on the wind in my mouth. Wringing the handlebar for speed, wild to be wreckage forever.
- James Dickey, Cherrylog Road.
The instructions are simple...
Simple fact is - if there are more (age group of choice) riding, then there are (age group) crashing.
Same as for engine capacity.
There is nothing sinister about the stats. Only how The Prick and his cronies are using them.
Do you realise how many holes there could be if people would just take the time to take the dirt out of them?
Forum whore
Seems to me, if we put half as much effort into reducing accidents as we do analysing numbers, we'd have the problem solved by now.
111000101000100010011110
We got some historical data and compiled some stats and graphs and things on this if it helps, second item down on this page we compared injury rates per 1000 vehicles and found that there was no correlation between higher engine size and higher accident rate; in fact 51-250cc riders are the highest risk. Also shows that the two classes with the highest increase in registered bike numbers 601cc+ and <50cc (scoots).
"A shark on whiskey is mighty risky, but a shark on beer is a beer engineer" - Tad Ghostal
on the up
Yeah we're working on that one too Steve, it's the age-old problem of leading the horse to water though - the stubborn bastards still won't drink...
And I to my motorcycle parked like the soul of the junkyard. Restored, a bicycle fleshed with power, and tore off. Up Highway 106 continually drunk on the wind in my mouth. Wringing the handlebar for speed, wild to be wreckage forever.
- James Dickey, Cherrylog Road.
Forum whore
They do if you block their nostrils.
Forum whore
It would be. With presumably less people getting in to riding bikes when they are young the age demographic is getting higher as we all get older. In ten years it might be 50+. Throw in the fact that some people see it as a leisure pursuit and throw their disposable income at it and that further reinforces the point. The one thing that may start to balance the scales is that as scooters become more and more popular the number of younger riders being killed and injured will increase. Shit. If they improve new rider training the oldies will look even worse in the figures.
The one thing we cannot tell easily is the riding experience of those involved - both years and regularity. This is critical to any kind of intervention plan, and to debating the demographic stats.
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