Power to weight restriction

[Mikkel]

I agree, in fact BOTH HP limits AND compulsory insurance are good ideas for cars and bikes

you need the other because there will always be spoilt brats with rich daddy's who don't care how much insurance costs

Indeed - compulsory 3rd party to insure a general level of sanity in how this stuff works.

Power limit to prevent rich parents with a guilty conscience spoiling their kids by giving them too powerful toys and insuring them in their own name!

[McJim]

You know and I know that is unrealistic! Unless it's in absolute shambles you won't get an RS250 that cheap... Not matter what the license restrictions might be.

Laws of supply and demand mate. 2 Stroke 250s are the way people get maximum performance for their licence class. This loophole now closes so you will need a full licence to ride a 2T 250 right? If you have a full licence why get a 60hp 2T for $10,000 if you can get a 90hp+ 4T 600 for the same money (or less)?

You would have to be someone like me who is more concerned with handling than power and too many people have been brainwashed by the Japanese marketeers and are fixated with hp at the crank.

[chanceyy]

Motorcycle safety package aims to cut crash rate

Hon Minister Duynhoven
Minister for Transport Safety

28 March 2008 Media Statement

Motorcycle safety package aims to cut high crash rate


The Government has announced a range of measures to reduce the
high number of motorcycle casualties on New Zealand roads.
Transport Safety Minister, Harry Duynhoven, says far too many
novice motorcyclists, particularly in the over-30 age group,
are involved in crashes.

"Since 2001, there has been a 28 percent increase in licensed
motorcycles, and this figure is expected to grow with predicted
rising fuel costs. But over the same period, there has been
a staggering 80 percent increase in motorcycle casualties.

"The package of initiatives signed off by Cabinet aims to address
this major road safety problem and to cut the high crash risk
of novice riders," says Mr Duynhoven.

The motorcycle safety proposals form part of the implementation
of the Road Safety to 2010 Strategy. They include restrictions
on the use of powerful motorcycles by novice riders, changes
to the Graduated Driver Licensing System to encourage riders
to take up more motorcycle-specific training and the introduction
of safer motorcyling practices such as improving the visibility
of motorcycle and moped riders to other road users.

"These proposals clearly target novice motorcyclists because
these riders face the greatest crash risk. They are paying far
too high a price - in 2007, motorcyclists and pillions accounted
for 10 percent of all road fatalities.

"I am confident there will be strong support for the initiatives
as they address many of the issues raised in the "See You There...Safe
As!" public consultation programme run in 2006," says Minister
Duynhoven.

One of the key issues arising from the public consultation concerned
the Graduated Driver Licensing System.

The package aimed at novice riders proposes restricting learner
and restricted motorcycle licence holders to less powerful motorcycles.
It also offers further training incentives to novice riders
to progress through their licence and puts a cap on the time
riders can spend on a learner licence.

In keeping with government proposals to shift the focus away
from fines to increased demerit points for lawbreaking motorists,
motorcyclists will run the risk of 25 demerit points for not
wearing a helmet.

"The emphasis is on ensuring novice motorcyclists are aware
of the increased risks they face on the road and that these riders
are well equipped for the responsibility of motorcycle ownership,"
says Mr Duynhoven.

The public will have the opportunity to comment on the proposed
changes towards the middle of this year as part of the Land Transport
Rules consultation process.

--

Questions and Answers - Motorcycle Safety Initiatives

1. What are the new proposals?

The proposals are to:

- Improve the safety of novice riders by restricting learner
and restricted motorcycle licence holders to motorcycles which
do not exceed a power-to-weight ratio of 150 kilowatts per tonne.
This is required because technological developments have meant
the current 250cc restriction allows motorcycles which are very
powerful. In addition to the power-to-weight limit an upper limit
of 660cc is proposed to ensure that the approved motorcycles
are not too physically large for novice riders;

- Encourage the uptake of rider training by amending the Graduated
Driver Licensing System (GDLS) for motorcyclists so an approved
motorcycle-specific training course completed in the learner
licence phase reduces the time spent on a restricted motorcycle
licence by six months;

- Introduce a motorcycle-specific competency based assessment
option as an alternative to the restricted and full licence tests
for those riders that undertake an approved motorcycle-specific
training course in the learner licence phase;

- Encourage progression through the GDLS by introducing a maximum
three year validity period for all learner motorcycle licences;

- Remove the 70km/h speed limit restriction which currently applies
to learner motorcycle licence holders. This restriction is largely
ignored. When this speed restriction is adhered to it creates
a large difference in the speed of vehicles travelling on the
open road, which is a known road safety problem. Road safety
research indicates this speed difference issue outweighs any
benefit of lower open road speed limits for novice motorcycle
riders;

- Increase compliance with the motorcycle helmet requirement
by introducing 25 demerit points and reducing the level of fine
from $150 to $50 for helmet incorrect and non-wearing offences;

- Improve the visibility of motorcycle and moped riders by introducing
a requirement for all motorcycle and moped riders to have daytime
running lights or their headlights on at all times when riding
on the road; and

- Reduce the level of risk for novice motorcyclists over the
age of 25 by increasing the minimum time period these motorcyclists
spend on a restricted licence from six to twelve months.

2. Why are these changes needed?

Motorcycle casualties (fatalities plus serious and minor injuries)
have grown significantly since 2001. While some growth in casualties
might have been expected as a result of the 28 percent increase
in licensed motorcycles over the same period, it is very concerning
that the casualty increase is so large. Furthermore the cost
of fuel has risen, and is likely to remain high, so motorcycle
ownership and use is likely to increase further. It is important
that best practice motorcycle safety initiatives are put in place
now to deal with this growing road safety problem.

3. Where have these best practice motorcycle initiatives come
from?

The majority of the GDLS proposals are based on a best practice
model for motorcycle licensing and training created by Monash
University in Melbourne. In the development of this model Monash
reviewed the motorcycle licensing and training systems in Australia,
the United Kingdom, parts of Europe and the U.S.A. The model
is based on the premise that motorcycle riding requires higher
levels of both vehicle control and cognitive skills than car
driving and that the potential outcomes of any failure on the
part of the rider, other road users, or the road environment
are severe. It states that in order to achieve substantial improvements
in the safety of motorcycling, the rider training and licensing
systems may need to be quite different than those for cars. New
Zealand already has aspects of the model in place, including
a Basic Motorcycle Handling Skills Test to obtain a learner licence.


There were also a couple of other specific motorcycle safety
issues emerging outside of the licensing and training systems
that needed a policy response.

[devnull]

Well, they trotted out 25% increase in motorcyclists. 80% increase in injury accidents...

I'd be extremely interested to see if there's a correlation with the increase of cages on the roads, and of that 80% injury increase, what percentage of them was due to the rider.

Why am I asking? Simply because if 79% of those injuries were caused by a dipshit in a cage, then clearly driver education and policing aren't working. So they could try doing something that a govt normally never does - address the root cause of the problem

I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for that to happen though....

[chanceyy]

4. Why have the specific limits of 150 kilowatts per tonne for
power-to-weight and 660cc for engine capacity been chosen as
a replacement for the current 250cc restriction for novice motorcyclists?


The limits are the same as those used for the Learner Approved
Motorcycle Scheme (LAMS), which was first introduced in New South
Wales (NSW) and has now been duplicated in a number of other
Australian states. In terms of ease of implementation and working
with bike importers and distributors the most expedient option
for New Zealand is to also duplicate the NSW LAMS model and use
their approved list of motorcycles. This scheme has been researched
thoroughly and has proved popular with the local motorcycling
community.

5. What role have motorcyclists played in the development of
these proposals?

In 2006, the Ministry of Transport organised a series of nationwide
public workshops to get public input into what were the road
safety priorities, and how these could be better addressed. The
See You There ... Safe As! campaign attracted a lot of interest
and from this, and other information collected, a draft policy
statement was produced last December. Some of the proposals stem
directly from feedback motorcyclists gave at the Safe As workshops
and on the Safe As Community web-based forum. For example, removing
the 70km/h speed limit for learner motorcyclists and replacing
the 250cc restriction with a power-to-weight restriction for
novice motorcyclists.

Key motorcycle stakeholders have been consulted through the Motorcycle
Safety Reference Group, which is convened by the Accident Compensation
Corporation (ACC). The reference group involves the motorcycling
industry, manufacturers, retailers, trainers and motorcycle interest
groups. The group broadly supports the proposals.

6. Will there be any exemptions to the requirement for all motorcycle
and moped riders to have daytime running lights or their headlights
on at all times when riding on the road?

Consideration will be given to exempting motorcycles or mopeds
over forty years old from this requirement as some older electrical
charging systems (generators) do not have the capacity to reliably
produce the power necessary to operate headlamps continuously.

7. The proposals mainly focus on novice motorcyclists, what about
continuing and returning riders?

The proposals mainly focus on novice motorcyclists as they face
the greatest crash risk, a growing portion of which are in the
over 30 age group. However, there is a cross-government agency
motorcycle safety group led by the Ministry of Transport that
is examining non-legislative safety initiatives that will benefit
all motorcycle and moped riders. This includes possible infrastructure
improvements, education and enforcement activities.

ACC also plays a significant role in terms of promoting motorcycle
safety for continuing and returning riders through the provision
of education material (e.g. http://www.rideforever.co.nz/) and
the funding of research.

8. What else is happening that will have an impact on motorcycle
safety?

A Bill which proposes raising the minimum driving age from 15
to 16 has been introduced to Parliament and is currently before
the Transport and Industrial Relations Select Committee for consideration.
Late last year the Government also announced a package of road
safety measures focussing on:
- changes to the current penalty regime, and in particular the
demerit system;
- changes to the penalty regime for people caught speeding by
police officers;
- the introduction of demerit points for offences relating to
intersections; and
- a package of proposals aimed at reducing the high crash risk
to young and novice drivers.
These measures build on proposals announced recently to reduce
the blood alcohol content limit to zero for drivers under 20
who do not hold a full licence. All of these changes will automatically
apply to motorcyclists and moped riders and will assist in reducing
the risk of this road user group.

Requiring all mopeds to be inspected before registration is currently
being considered as part of a review of low powered vehicles.
Restricting moped riders with learner and restricted car driver
licences from carrying pillion passengers is to be included in
the Land Transport (Driver Licensing) Amendment Rule 2008.


When will the changes occur?

The proposals will require changes to the Land Transport Driver
Licensing and Road User rules and Land Transport Offences and
Penalties Regulations. Amendments to these are included in the
07/08 rules programme and there will be a chance to comment on
the proposals as part of the rules consultation process.

9. Where can I get further information?

The Regulatory Impact Statement is published on the Ministry
of Transport's website: http://www.transport.govt.nz/ris-bccs/


In terms of the current licensing requirements for motorcyclists,
go to: http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/lic...cle/index.html

For information on the important role ACC plays in promoting
motorcycle safety, including a link to the educative material
they provide to riders, refer to:
http://www.acc.co.nz/injury-preventi...fety/WCM001268
and http://www.rideforever.co.nz/

Monash University Review of motorcycle licensing and training:
http://www.monash.edu.au/muarc/reports/muarc240.pdf

[idleidolidyll]

You would have to be someone like me who is more concerned with handling than power and too many people have been brainwashed by the Japanese marketeers and are fixated with hp at the crank.

that's true Jim; but leaving the nice handlers to you, me and a few others in the know isn't such a bad thing.

I like nothing more than embarrassing litre sport bikes on 'gutless' good handling bikes.

[LilSel]

My bike isnt on that list (why not?? its not got lots of horsies?)
Is restricted the same as 'learners' on this new rule??

Thankfully Im sitting my full on monday & will be selling mine soon anyways

[homer]

The 150kW/tonne limit seems a little low ... seems to me the VTR250 and the new ninja (and probably the old gpx) will both fail that test - they seem plenty tame enough to me.

Good news for Hyosung, I guess.

Richard

can someone put in words whats 150kw/ tonne is exactly

a gsx600 is about 59 kw weighs about 180 kg
so it wont make it as a learner bike ?

[McJim]

I like nothing more than embarrassing litre sport bikes on 'gutless' good handling bikes.

Yeah, you like fine handling bikes coz you know what to do with 'em. I on the other hand need a sweet handling ride coz I'm a noobie and a bit shit.

[McJim]

can someone put in words whats 150kw/ tonne is exactly

a gsx600 is about 59 kw weighs about 180 kg
so it wont make it as a learner bike ?

hmmm yeah well 180 goes into 1000 over 5.5 times and 59kw times 5.5 is 219kw per tonne.

[Mikkel]

Laws of supply and demand mate. 2 Stroke 250s are the way people get maximum performance for their licence class. This loophole now closes so you will need a full licence to ride a 2T 250 right? If you have a full licence why get a 60hp 2T for $10,000 if you can get a 90hp+ 4T 600 for the same money (or less)?

You would have to be someone like me who is more concerned with handling than power and too many people have been brainwashed by the Japanese marketeers and are fixated with hp at the crank.

I also believe in supply and demand - but as the license restrictions change I think you'll find that the demand will drop as well.

I wasn't saying that the prices on 2-stroke 250 ccms isn't going to drop - just that $5,000 for a nice machine will still be unrealistic.

You forget that a properly tuned and maintained RS250 will be about as fast around a track (bar the straight) as a 600 ccm sports bike - and probably more fun as well.

So unless you expect the entire market to shift down dramatically with these new laws I think you'll be looking long and hard for a nice 2-stroke 250 ccm for less than $7,500 (we're talking the 60+ hps here of course, not the restricted ones).

[onearmedbandit]

that's true Jim; but leaving the nice handlers to you, me and a few others in the know isn't such a bad thing.

I like nothing more than embarrassing litre sport bikes on 'gutless' good handling bikes.

Interesting you say that. One of the British bike rags tested a 400 vs 600 vs 1000 vs Buell. The 400 was not a better handling bike then the late model 600 or thou, although this could be partly attributed to tired suspension. Regardless, late model 600's are not much heavier than a 250 two stroke and have far superior suspenders front and rear. I'd say that once again it comes down to the pilot.

[Motu]

Or an MV Agusta 350!

Have you ridden one? I rode a nearly new one,and they weren't that fast...faster than a CB350,but not as fast as an RD350.Handling was a different story altogether - but they aren't classifying learner bikes on handling ability.

I think this is all good,should of been done decades ago - pity so many idiots had to kill themselves before there was any action.I wonder if those in power ever read these forums?

[idleidolidyll]

Interesting you say that. One of the British bike rags tested a 400 vs 600 vs 1000 vs Buell. The 400 was not a better handling bike then the late model 600 or thou, although this could be partly attributed to tired suspension. Regardless, late model 600's are not much heavier than a 250 two stroke and have far superior suspenders front and rear. I'd say that once again it comes down to the pilot.

the problem is you're comparing the wrong bikes. Most 400's are heavy as hell.

I'm talking thumpers and light 2 strokes and they are WAY lighter than 600s

The trouble is the lies the japs tell you. 'Dry' weight is ridiculous. Honda have offered 160ish for their 600 but admitted that it's actually 189kg ready to ride.

A KTM Duke is 152kg ready to ride and has way better suspension than most jappas.
the 'prilia RS250 is also light and well sprung.

but please, lets not digress too much; this is a good thread about legislation.

I applaud the gummint for the initiative but ONLY if htey extend it to cars too and make insurance compulsory.

Mikkel is right on the money

[jrandom]

My bike isnt on that list (why not?? its not got lots of horsies?)

Your bike is a two fiddy, so it's good to go.

If you re-read the list carefully, you'll see that it's

- "All bikes of 250 cc and under, except for these two-stroke race reps"; plus

- "This 'ere list of bigger bikes that ain't too fast".