Who's accountable

**eliot-ness** · 30th May 2005, 09:39

Accountability seems to be the buzz word at the moment. Whatever we do OSH is there to guide and keep us safe. All very commendable. None of us are capable of bringing up the kids, painting the house, or even having a shower without political guidance. But who's accountable for the dangerous road conditions we encounter every day, Diesel spills, can't do much about them. Effluent from stock trucks. Rules are there but not enforced. New chip seal, usually signposted. But what about the rest..Potholes on corners, badly repaired surfaces, dangerous methods of repair, usually the cheapest method availlable. These, and many more hazards make N.Z.s roads bloody dangerous, but mention accountability and politicians run for cover. Transit do a pretty good job on the main highways, main problem seems to be local authorities penny pinching on maintainance with the usual political excuse, lack of money. These people are given the responsibility of keeping our roads safe. If they fail in that responsibility they should be legally liable for the consequences. A case in the U.K. in the 60s where a rider who was prosecuted for ridng without due care and causing an accident, proved that the accident was in fact caused by a pothole. He claimed damages from the local council, and won. Hazard signs sprang up like mushrooms overnight and roads improved 100%. Has anyone tried taking authorities to court here??. Laws here seem to be similar to U.K. Why not get Bronz/A.A. to look into it.???

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Got a bike for the wife.....................bloody good swap.

**Ixion** · 30th May 2005, 14:32

Originally Posted by eliot-ness

Accountability seems to be the buzz word at the moment. Whatever we do OSH is there to guide and keep us safe. All very commendable. ..Diesel spills, can't do much about them. Effluent from stock trucks. Rules are there but not enforced. New chip seal, usually signposted. But what about the rest..Potholes on corners, badly repaired surfaces, dangerous methods of repair, usually the cheapest method availlable. These, and many more hazards make N.Z.s roads bloody dangerous, but mention accountability and politicians run for cover. ..A case in the U.K. in the 60s where a rider who was prosecuted for ridng without due care and causing an accident, proved that the accident was in fact caused by a pothole. He claimed damages from the local council, and won. Hazard signs sprang up like mushrooms overnight and roads improved 100%. Has anyone tried taking authorities to court here??. Laws here seem to be similar to U.K. Why not get Bronz/A.A. to look into it.???

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Got a bike for the wife.....................bloody good swap.

Don't get me started on this topic. Over the years I've jousted at all the governmental windmills, without the slightest success. You missed my particular bete noire though, that damned white paint. That is particularly galling because it actually costs the council money to make the road unsafe.

But the universal attitude from ALL governmental bodies is that they would prefer there to be no motorcycles, are totally disinterested in anything that makes the roads dangerous for them , and if a few bikers get killed, so much the better.

The official response is pretty much "Well, if xxxx makes the roads dangerous for motorcycles, then motorcycles shouldn't be on the roads". If cages don't have a problem there is no problem.

And BRONZ is almost moribund, and little more than a timid pussy even when it wasn't.

Some guy did take a local council to court about unsignposted road works (he crashed) and won, there was quite a long thread about it a while back

**ManDownUnder** · 30th May 2005, 14:50

I am "lucky" enough to do a bit of business up in the States... and I fear we are heading towards their model of "responsibility".

If it doesn't have a warning, you're expected not to know about the dangers and someone else is therefore accoutable for your actions.

Who would have known that sticking a knoife in the power socket would electrocute little Jimmy? They should put a sign on the knife, and the plug to warn against that!

What gets me is that anytime I go up to a trade show I have to sign off on a documentation (13 pages of...) to say I agree to this and that, am suitably insured etc. I need a MINIMUM of $10,000,000 indemnity insurance. Just in case I do something and get sued.

There is now so much time and space taken up with warning signs and information, it is not humanly possible to take it all in, analyse it and apply it.

But they do it to stay out of trouble.

Go figure!
MDU

**eliot-ness** · 30th May 2005, 14:52

My wife drives from Warkkworth to the city daily and regularly reports dangerous road conditions, i.e. potholes on the inside lane of the hill approaching Waiwera forcing traffic into overtaking lane. She was thanked very politely and told this was the first report of a problem. Hazard signs were in place next day and repairs started within a week. Maybe as a group motor cyclists and car drivers are not militant enough. Individuals don't sway government departments.

**Ixion** · 30th May 2005, 15:01

Originally Posted by eliot-ness

My wife drives from Warkkworth to the city daily and regularly reports dangerous road conditions, i.e. potholes on the inside lane of the hill approaching Waiwera forcing traffic into overtaking lane. She was thanked very politely and told this was the first report of a problem. Hazard signs were in place next day and repairs started within a week. Maybe as a group motor cyclists and car drivers are not militant enough. Individuals don't sway government departments.

Auckland City Council are also good with potholes - Mrs Ixion reports one most weeks and they send a truck round quite quickly.

It's the systemic things they do not do well. Pot holes are dealt with by "ordinary blokes", who just treat it as a job of work. It's when you get into the bureaucratic levels that it all goes 'orrible.

And me, for me, I certainly think motorcycle groups ought to be more militant.

We used to be, I remember the huige meeting at the Auckland Town Hall when ACC originally tried to increase the levioes by an absurd amount (early 70's I guess).

But then bikes got pretty much driven off the road and got all timid.

**mikey** · 30th May 2005, 15:07

your accountable for your own shit. you choose it.

**Hitcher** · 30th May 2005, 16:00

I blame the Labour government...

**jazbug5** · 30th May 2005, 16:15

I have to agree. If local government is to be resposible for maintaining road surfacing, and assuming there is some way of ensuring that the funding is there regardless of the comparitive wealth of the locals, then there ought to be inspections and standards should be enforced. I don't think it's over the top to suggest this- who want to encounter a bloody great pothole as you round a tight bend? I nearly came off in Northland because there was this bizzarre hump (invisible until on it) right on the apex of one. Not fun...

**Lou Girardin** · 30th May 2005, 16:47

If there was a national bike lobby group that was well supported it may be possible to challenge some of the worst anti-biker decisions in court. A couple of wins would change attitudes. At the moment we just moan to each other.

**SPman** · 30th May 2005, 17:02

Originally Posted by Hitcher

I blame the Labour government...

I blame Mr Hitcher.

**Ixion** · 30th May 2005, 17:09

Originally Posted by SPman

I blame Mr Hitcher.

I think Mr Hitcher is the Labour government.

**Hitcher** · 30th May 2005, 18:37

Originally Posted by Ixion

I think Mr Hitcher is the Labour government.

Fuck. I've been outted... (contemplates "suicide by bureaucracy")

**Flyingpony** · 30th May 2005, 20:30

I like how the system is marking lanes for cyclists at intersections. It's really good to see them giving more space to cyclists, but do they have to paint those things too?

That's a massive painted surface to ride very carefully over / around on a motorcycle and typically they're always found covering critical positions. The busiest intersections I ride through are generously covered with it and on wet days cars dislike my fall avoidance caution ie slowness over painted cycle lanes at corners.

Did the people think about motorcycle safety before those red strips were painted?

**Mr Skid** · 30th May 2005, 20:44

Originally Posted by Flyingpony

I like how the system is marking lanes for cyclists at intersections. It's really good to see them giving more space to cyclists, but do they have to paint those things too?

What would you suggest? Chalk outlines?