Restricted licence time frame

[Owl]

Agreed (for point 1 at least) - and it's nice to read your reasoned and well thought out argument above, rather than the alternative "wah wah govt bullshit cops are out to get me" type of thing that usually dominates these threads.

Regarding pont 3 - the munters:
It is indeed an assumption that a full license=safer driver/rider until some stats are revealed by Joyce, however the fact remains that the gubbmint doesn't NEED to prove this fact in order to change the law, because for 90% of the population, 90% of the time, it is going to be true.
What you can not prove with crash stats is the mentality of the driver. It's a good indicator of the attitude of the person in charge of a deadly weapon that they can't even be bothered taking a simple test - maybe they can't be bothered maintaining a safe and roadworthy vehicle either? Hell, why even bother sticking to the speed limit or giving way or obeying traffic signals.....I'd deem that person to be at higher risk of causing an accident.

You are so full of shit its unbelievable

What's unbelievable is that I agree with miloking

[notme]

Y.......I am even inclined to agree with allun that it perhaps demonstrates the individual's committment to the process and desire to become a competent driver/rider (even though this is an entirely speculative view).

This whole discussion is - but it's fun, innit?

[yachtie10]

What's unbelievable is that I agree with miloking

seek help

[notme]

What's unbelievable is that I agree with miloking

Excellent contribution to the debate - on par with your earlier one!

Given that you agree, could you make some points as to what exactly you agree with and why? miloking has not yet been able to coherently voice any, and I'm burning with the desire to know what wisdom is going to spew forth!

[Owl]

Excellent contribution to the debate - on par with your earlier one!

The difference is that my earlier post was fact, whereas your posts are plain speculation and have no basis in fact. You are however entitled to your opinion!

[notme]

The difference is that my earlier post was fact, whereas your posts are plain speculation and have no basis in fact. You are however entitled to your opinion!

Some would say that to the letter of the law, yes - your earlier post was fact in that you were correcting factually incorrect grammer. Some would also argue that it added nothing to the debate.....not me though! I still maintain it was a valuable contribution!

For the third time - I'm politely requesting that you explain the speculation in my posts. The reality, I fear, is that there will be another 100% correct fact with 0% value forthcoming....

Just pick one - my proposed possibilties 1, 2, or 3 that you have taken issue with, and for the love of underpants that are holey, back up some of your assertions!

..... You are however entitled to your opinion!

Now THAT is the granddaddy of all facts!

[Coldrider]

Back in the good ol' days, the provisional licence for motorcycles lasted for eight weeks, and had to be renewed after eight weeks, with a limit of renewals.
I don't know of anyone who did not sit their full licence by the eight week period.
That is not to say that some one i didn't know was aloser, but everyone busted their gut to be competent and get rid of the dreaded L coloured rego sticker.
But that is a time when there was pass or fail, not various shades of pass, not ready to pass, passed not yet, in the nanny state.
Man up , be competent and confident, or fuck off to the cages where the same thing is happening.
I bet there is some who do not want their licences popping in the system because they will have warrants for arrest, and/or piles of unpaid fines catching up with them.

[Berries]

when i was at school and unit...........

Nah. You've got me there. I have understood most of your typos, but WTF is a unit ?

[rachprice]

Why exactly is this even news worth mentioning? It only affects those high risk riders who can't or won't move on up the ladder, which is fine by me - they are the group who shouldn't be riding anyway!

Interesting cos I still have my learners but I would not count myself as high risk
I get my aggression and competitiveness out on the track

[Jantar]

...Regarding pont 3 - the munters:
It is indeed an assumption that a full license=safer driver/rider until some stats are revealed by Joyce,....

Those facts are available at: http://www.transport.govt.nz/researc...sheet-2010.pdf

Including this statement on page 7:

Learner licence holders make up a greater percentage of motorcyclists involved in crashes (21 percent) than overall drivers, including motorcyclists (7 percent). In 2009, motorcyclist learner licence holders made up 12 percent of all motorcycle licence holders, whereas learner car licence holders made up only 8 percent of all car licence holders. Fifty-seven percent of car learner licence holders were aged under 25 years old, whereas only 16 percent of motorcycle learner licence holders were aged under 25 years.
Despite the rule that learner and restricted licence holders are not permitted to ride motorcycles with an engine capacity greater than 250cc, 15 percent of riders on learner licences, and 26 percent of riders on restricted licences, are riding bikes of over 250cc at the time of their crashes.

It also shows that although 80% of licenced riders have a full licence they are invoved in only 52% of crashes.

[rachprice]

I'll also provide a direct answer to this in case the points above are not clear enough.

The evidence is that they have not passed through to the full stage.

Maybe cos they haven't tried? The might be the safest riders in the world but because they haven't sat a test the are instantly more dangerous? I don't think so

[rachprice]

Agreed (for point 1 at least) - and it's nice to read your reasoned and well thought out argument above, rather than the alternative "wah wah govt bullshit cops are out to get me" type of thing that usually dominates these threads.

Regarding pont 3 - the munters:
It is indeed an assumption that a full license=safer driver/rider until some stats are revealed by Joyce, however the fact remains that the gubbmint doesn't NEED to prove this fact in order to change the law, because for 90% of the population, 90% of the time, it is going to be true.
What you can not prove with crash stats is the mentality of the driver. It's a good indicator



of the attitude of the person in charge of a deadly weapon that they can't even be
bothered taking a simple test - maybe they can't be bothered maintaining a safe
and roadworthy vehicle either? Hell, why even bother sticking to the speed limit or
giving way or obeying traffic signals.....I'd deem that person to be at higher risk of
causing an accident.

Well I admit I'm lazy as fuck about my licenses but it's bullshit that im higher risk

[Gareth123]

I sat on my learner motorcycle license for 8 years. All the bikes I have owned and ridden have been under 250cc. If I want to go anywhere after 10pm I drive my car as I have a full class 1.

When I go for a ride on my bike, I ride to the conditions and my skill level...I'm not sure how this makes me an unsafe rider/driver. Ask the crowd of people I ride with down in chch, I keep up, ride safely and don't cause problems.

Why should I be punished for not getting my full? This whole theory that learner/restricted drivers/riders are unsafe has not been fully thought through.

BTW, I sat my restricted and passed 1 month ago. I did that so I can get my full and ride the cm400 custom that I bought 5 months ago. It's sitting in my parents garage where I can't be tempted by it.

[davereid]

If a learners or restricted licence meets your needs, I can understand why a driver does not get a full.

I find a car and motorcycle licence meet mine, and I remain untempted to get a bulldozer licence, even though I know it is much safer as no one driving a bulldozer was killed on the roads last year.

[notme]

Nah. You've got me there. I have understood most of your typos, but WTF is a unit ?

"school and uni". A "t" snuck it's way in there, they do that you know. They are mischevious, those bloody "t"'s!