Government group wants GST at 17.5%

[The Stranger:Me]

Why ? I mean .. seriously ??? Why ???? What will that achieve ????

It casts the tax net wider.
The Plumber (replace with virtually any trade) that does a cash job, who collects his income tax? The theif, the fence, the drug dealer - who's collecting their income tax? Why should they trade tax free? Just because they are breaking the law should they also be rewarded for it?

The higher the rate of GST the more of that money gets caught in the tax net and in theory the less is required of mine. Well that's the theory, but the reality of what the govt would do with any "extra" money could well be different.

Sure, there are other pros and cons. But that is the angle I was coming from.

[BMWST?]

Why ? I mean .. seriously ??? Why ???? What will that achieve ????

because people can arrange their finaces to avoid income tax....its more difficult to avoid gst

[rustic101]

Personally, I'm no financial wizard but a quick whip through Google indictaes that NZ has the lowest Goods and Services Tax in the OECD. Then again I could be wrong.

P.S - So I have a poo load of Bonus Bonds. Does that mean I'm avoiding paying tax???? Never figured that bit out!

[98tls]

Raising GST won't happen in the short term - it's political suicide for any party to even suggest.

I wouldnt be surprised, if Labour ever get back in, to see a compulsory Super scheme like Australia's implemented though. It's not perfect, but A$1.2 Trillion (or whatver the value is, it's something enormous) is difficult to ignore.

Plus maybe a Gummint Guarantee for Kiwisaver funds too.

Kiwisaver is difficult to argue with though - chucking the $1040/year in the pot gets you a 300% return (400% in the first year). Course, we're in a position where we can have independant savings too.

Course they will get back in,its the Kiwi way.Simply put in there pre election bullshit they will promise bludgers,Maori,single parents,anyone living on an island within floating distance a better deal and bingo,election won.This countrys up to its neck in shit and considering the make up of said country i cant see anyway out for it to be honest,mind you no different to anywhere else the damage is already done and elections will be won simply on promises.,without doubt Clarke put the noose round our necks.

[The Stranger:Me]

What? Cry us a river? the elitist and, in my eyes, ignorant view of reality that you display in your posts, always brings a smile to my face and a warm glow to my heart. Tarring everyone with the, you're a lazy bastard if you've got no money, or you haven't made it, strikes me as exceptionally vane and naive... The contempt you show towards society and what you deem to be the lack lustre, under achieving performers and black marketeers shows you do not value anyone that doesn't fit your criteria for membership of the human race. Funny thing is, you probably need those people somewhere along your "food" chain. You are the me me me generation. The country that provided for you and you families from birth (you're silver spoon boys?) obviously taking a distant back seat on your list of priorities. Would you dump the chips on your shoulders and think about helping to get the country back onto its feet by paying more than your fair share in tax, allowing minimal pain to be felt by those who are struggling and would like to be where you are? I bet that's a resounding no too.

But I have been wrong in the past

Fricken awesome!
This post needs to be preserved as a classic display of raw KB ignorant passion. Some "intellectual" makes an assumption then proceeds to base an entire tirade on his erroneous assumption as if it held some shred of reality.
KB knowledge at it's very finest. Wicked!

[geoffm]

NZ has been slashing costs left and right in an attempt to control govt spending and debt, increasing taxations across the board and putting those who didn't get anything out of the income tax cut in a position where they have taken not only a pay cut, but I would venture in many cases, have had to consider their career options to the point where they are willing to become another employment statistic, along with those who have been turfed out in the name of efficiency. Go get another job? What jobs?

No, they haven't been slashing costs - they have been fiddling aroudn the edges. If they wanted to slash costs, there are lots of Ministries and various quangos to get rid of.
Does NZ REALLY need a Ministry of Woman's Affairs, a Minster of Racing, Families Commission, Human Rights Commission, etc? Get rid of them, wholesale and really save some money.
The rot started with Muldoon, who wanted his cabinet bigger than half the caucus, so he could keep his enemies closer, and have a majority of people in caucus who owed him favours.

[mashman]

Fricken awesome!
This post needs to be preserved as a classic display of raw KB ignorant passion. Some "intellectual" makes an assumption then proceeds to base an entire tirade on his erroneous assumption as if it held some shred of reality.
KB knowledge at it's very finest. Wicked!

Glad I could oblige... again...

[mashman]

No, they haven't been slashing costs - they have been fiddling aroudn the edges. If they wanted to slash costs, there are lots of Ministries and various quangos to get rid of.
Does NZ REALLY need a Ministry of Woman's Affairs, a Minster of Racing, Families Commission, Human Rights Commission, etc? Get rid of them, wholesale and really save some money.
The rot started with Muldoon, who wanted his cabinet bigger than half the caucus, so he could keep his enemies closer, and have a majority of people in caucus who owed him favours.

Fiddling it is then... I guess i'll never appreciate politics, or indeed understand it...

[The Stranger:Me]

Fiddling it is then... I guess i'll never appreciate politics, or indeed understand it...

FFS don't let a minor detail like that stop you.

[98tls]

No, they haven't been slashing costs - they have been fiddling aroudn the edges. If they wanted to slash costs, there are lots of Ministries and various quangos to get rid of.
Does NZ REALLY need a Ministry of Woman's Affairs, a Minster of Racing, Families Commission, Human Rights Commission, etc? Get rid of them, wholesale and really save some money.
The rot started with Muldoon, who wanted his cabinet bigger than half the caucus, so he could keep his enemies closer, and have a majority of people in caucus who owed him favours.

Fuck at least you got a laugh outta RobDoes NZ really need suburbs made up of bludgers?even worse after a mandortary time of bludging there allowed to bring in related bludgersWish you people would at least discuss some of the real problems.Sort out immigration/dole bludgers incl of working for pokie familys,ignore anything called "treaty claims" and you have the start of a comeback for this country.

[p.dath]

The problem with the last GST increase is by the time it got down the line to the end consumers the increase was not 2.5% but in some cases had reached up to 7.5% and higher as each person in the supply link added it on.

You do realise that businesses (aka, people in the supply link) don't pay GST? Only end users pay.

An increase in GST does not affect the operating cost of a business (only operating cash flow). There is no "ramping" up impact from middle men caused solely by GST.

and limit the dole to say 6 months,if you cant find a job in 6 months you never will so move somewhere where there is one.

Tough one. There is a relationship between crime and those people who have no income. If you take away someone's only source of income (the unemployment benefit in this case) expect a sharp increase in crime (people will commit crime to stay alive). That cost of that increase in crime may well exceed the cost of the benefit they previously got.

It casts the tax net wider.
The Plumber (replace with virtually any trade) that does a cash job, who collects his income tax? The theif, the fence, the drug dealer - who's collecting their income tax? Why should they trade tax free? Just because they are breaking the law should they also be rewarded for it?

The higher the rate of GST the more of that money gets caught in the tax net and in theory the less is required of mine. Well that's the theory, but the reality of what the govt would do with any "extra" money could well be different.

+1. Completely agree.

because people can arrange their finaces to avoid income tax....its more difficult to avoid gst

+1. Completely agree. Would you rather the people of the nation paid $500m to accounts and lawyers to come up with schemes to avoid paying tax, or simply change to a consumption tax that everyone pays, and wipe out the tax "reduction" industry?

[avgas]

I reckon increase gst to 20% and make a flat 20% income tax.
Make the poor save, and penalize the rich who spend.

We could even have an economy (out of it) once people have sorted their priorities out. And the dollar could be worth something.

[avgas]

Newsflash!

Govt taxes people, People not happy

and comming up next:
how to save a kitten from a tree.

.....oh yeah and something about Cairo

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

and I buy a lot overseas.

They are cracking down on that too and you will be paying GST on it soon enough... At present only if the value is over a certian dollar value or something?

[Banditbandit]

It casts the tax net wider.
The Plumber (replace with virtually any trade) that does a cash job, who collects his income tax? The theif, the fence, the drug dealer - who's collecting their income tax? Why should they trade tax free? Just because they are breaking the law should they also be rewarded for it?

The higher the rate of GST the more of that money gets caught in the tax net and in theory the less is required of mine. Well that's the theory, but the reality of what the govt would do with any "extra" money could well be different.

Sure, there are other pros and cons. But that is the angle I was coming from.

because people can arrange their finaces to avoid income tax....its more difficult to avoid gst

OK .. yes, theoretically that would work (By the way, a lot of my old criminal friends - I have little to do with them any more - pay taxes on criminal earnings, because if they get caught by the law they also get hit by the taxman ... the last big case of the taxman hitting criminals which made publicity in GodZone was the Mister Asia ring - many of them got hit by IRD and lost everything)

The size of the Black Economy in NZ has been estimated at anywhere between 12% and 20% of GDP (the most likely and support by evidence claim I've seen is around 14%) - that's a large chunk of money floating through this country that is not taxed in any way - a rough estimate if it was taxed would be a 14% increase in the Govt tax take - so your argument does hold some water ...

And yes, people do avoid paying income tax - GST is harder to avoid.

Good discussion paper here ... http://oldfraser.lexi.net/publicatio.../chapter5.html

The problem is that a lot of the stays in the Black Economy - for instance, how do you claim GST on tinnies? A tradesman dealing in cash jobs is likely to support others doing the same. Sure, he will buy food, pay the power bill, etc etc .. but that won't change. So putting up GST and lowering other taxes will hit the a same people, those who live and work in the normal economy.