Motorcycle ACTION Now!

[idleidolidyll]

That has always been my point. I have seen passion and drive in so many people. These people exist within BRONZ and within MAG, these people share a vision and desire to get the best possible deal for motorcyclists.

I have always maintained that we MUST unite and work together. We cannot be seen to be divided. Lets face it, TPTB trawl these websites and forums to get ammo against us, this is excellent ammo.

I am trying to see how ANY campaign, physical, literal or otherwise professing to be the 'voice of bikers' cannot be progressed without some kind of unity.

III is aggesive in his aapproach, if that aggression equates to passion for a cause then great but to cut away the groups who hold the same passion really is a divide and conquer tactic that we are drawing upon oursleves.

As for KB Elite, dont know about that. This is a fucking website after all, the last time I looked my PC has an off switch, at the very least there are other websites to look at (www.hot pastrychicks.com and www.strippers-in-lard.org).

I feel I have expressed my opinion but, as I have been told many times, what the fuck do I know.....

Maxx

We've waited 18 months for alternatives to produce results; how much longer do we have to wait!
Digit is correct, I saw from the start that words without action would be next to useless. carrot and stick.
The carrot without the stick is only going to achieve minimal result.

No, I'm not impatient; I waited 18 months and gave the organizations their chance. They have not produced results. Given that failing, sailing the same tack would seem to be narrow minded: we need to try something else and that something else is Action.

You suggest my attacks on these organizations are counterproductive; go back and read their attacks on me and those supporting me 18 months ago. was that equally counterproductive? It's a 2 way street.

We have a limited time to achieve anything under the current government. I've tried waiting and allowing the orgs to talk, I've tried booting some sense into them; neither has worked and in return I've been told 'no tall poppies', 'don't inconvenience the public' and other such nonsense. this is about our lives, our health and our rights. Time to step up and act, not to sit back and believe politicians lies.

[idleidolidyll]

To subvert biker politics to suit his socialist ideologies. He wants National out and the biggest tool he can see to do that is you lot. Maybe.

See, we've heard it so many times we switch off after the first couple of buzzwords. So he might have THE WORD, but there's a background waft of rat in the air and we've got better things to read.

Easy solution mate, put me on ignore.
Yes, it's true I can see through the lies and fallacies of the Hollow Men and want them gone.

However, the entire issue around motorcyclist rights is a political mess and that's how it must be framed to achieve results. Don't allow them to divide and conquer, don't allow them to think you'll support them if they continue to produce policy that disadvantages bikers and even results in biker deaths (road conditions, cheeseburgers). I don't support National but neither do I support Labour. However, at least Labour has offered to make changes.

If that's the case, I support them. The thing politicians fear most is loss of power. That is e key. Regardless of your other beliefs, are biker rights and biker deaths due to deliberate ignorance and deliberate policy important enough to you to take action? If yes, sign up. If not; we never needed you anyway.

[avgas]

I view this post as an attempt to ridicule and take the thread off topic. It won't be reported this time but any similar posts will be.

No advocacy of illegality will be posted on this open forum and no suggestion of it will be entertained. If you wish to find and excuse for childish behaviour, this is not the place.

So basically you want to do EXACTLY what the others already do - but this time YOU want the power.
Weak

But please enlighten us as to why you are different?
Why do we need a leader when we are perfectly fine fighting our own battles as a collective?

I would rather see a 1000 bikers speaking their own mind in genuine protest than another limp dick approach of you a few other monkeys in a room with the PM.

I am not going to post again in this thread until Chch has some more stability - so if you really want to pussy out, feel free to cry to mum and get my post put in PD.

As for the rest of you - if you feel pissed off about ACC. Think of a way to show them how pissed off you really are.
This happens when Chch is settled.

[Ocean1]

Easy solution mate, put me on ignore.

Took your time.

I don't need artificial help to ignore you mate, you make it as easy as breathing.

As for the rest? your next sentence was classic IIIdiot propaganda, so I ignored it.

[idleidolidyll]

III's problem is, he refuses to see the bigger picture.

Thanks for sharing what you think my problems are Katman. Given that you are ill informed about my understanding of issues and given that you expect me to believe you have a greater understanding based on your self belief, I'd suggest you focus on your own shortcomings first or perhaps add something of value to the discussion instead.

The big picture here is that bikers have been fucked over ever since I can remember, The big picture is that biker rights and biker safety have been generally dismissed for decades, the big picture is that talking has been a tactic since I was a lad, the big picture is that one of the very very actions I recall actually achieving anything, was a protest in Auckland where bikers took ACTION and filled up car park spaces when the Council was threatening to ban bike parking in areas.

Did you see that word: ACTION
All the talk added up to nothing until the bikers around Auckland got together and made life inconvenient for the City Council and ratepayers. The minute they did that, the Council folded and treated us with respect.

BUT: the really big picture in this context is that BRONZ has been around for bloody years and Ulysseus has been around for bloody years and MAG has had 18 months; and between them all there have been no tangible wins for bikers from all that talk that I can tell you of. Sure, BRONZ claimed a 'win' when Key only doubled the fees but I'd already told people that would happen the first week we knew the levies were going up; it wasn't a win at all. Im sure others claimed those as wins too but be realistic; they were merely a face saving way to capitulate.

Shall we wait another 18 months for action, another 30 years? No thanks; if we continue to piss about with PC waffle alone; they will consider that an invitation to screw us over again and again.

So thanks for your comments but I must point out they are an opinion based on lack of knowledge and indeed bear no relation to reality with resepect to RESULTS.

[SPman]

So basically you want to do EXACTLY what the others already do - but this time YOU want the power.
Weak

But please enlighten us as to why you are different?
Why do we need a leader when we are perfectly fine fighting our own battles as a collective?

I would rather see a 1000 bikers speaking their own mind in genuine protest than another limp dick approach of you a few other monkeys in a room with the PM.

I am not going to post again in this thread until Chch has some more stability - so if you really want to pussy out, feel free to cry to mum and get my post put in PD.

As for the rest of you - if you feel pissed off about ACC. Think of a way to show them how pissed off you really are.
This happens when Chch is settled.

When and if Chch is settled - politics waits for no disasters - in fact - politicians use disasters to further their own gains, to slide even more odious laws and systems into place because the public are even further distracted! It's hard to keep an eye on politicians or care about what they are doing when you are trying to rebuild your lives and properties. You'd expect them to be helping those in need! Hah! Only if they can get to remain in power, otherwise they couldn't give two fucks about the ordinary citizen. Your "consent" to remain in power, thought of by most as their vote, is all they want. Withdraw that consent, and they will do whatever it takes to try and keep power and that is the hold people have over politicos. What a shame most people are too scared to realise that.

[idleidolidyll]

Took your time.

I don't need artificial help to ignore you mate, you make it as easy as breathing.

As for the rest? your next sentence was classic IIIdiot propaganda, so I ignored it.

so you say but you dont actually ignore, you seem quite fixated in fact

as for the last sentence, you've done that before ocean1; denounced something outright without any valid argument to back up you statement and certainly no fact based evidence or references.

That being a given, thank you for your opinion but for the sake of the topic; do you have anything of value to add?

[Fatt Max]

We have a limited time to achieve anything under the current government. I've tried waiting and allowing the orgs to talk, I've tried booting some sense into them; neither has worked and in return I've been told 'no tall poppies', 'don't inconvenience the public' and other such nonsense. this is about our lives, our health and our rights. Time to step up and act, not to sit back and believe politicians lies.

Another passion filled post, has to be admired regardless of agreeing with the content.

I struggle with politicians period. The preent government are one issue, I just hope that any future government will be more 'on our side' so to speak. I use caution here because, well lets face it, politicians are nothing more than a pack of liars whose single focus is to stay on the gravy train at whatever cost.

Therefore, I repeat my 'romantic vision' that, as a community, bikers from all corners have to unite and support each other en masse. Literal and physical actions need to be combined as they both have their place and must not count each other out.

The ACTION you passionatley describe is desired by many, many other people. It is a rationalisation of methodology that really does need to be considered.

But then, what the fuck do I know........

[Virago]

...BUT: the really big picture in this context is that BRONZ has been around for bloody years and Ulysseus has been around for bloody years and MAG has had 18 months...

As I understand it, MAG-NZ was launched in October 2010 - only four months ago. Can you please expand on the 18 months that you are repeatedly claiming?

[idleidolidyll]

So basically you want to do EXACTLY what the others already do - but this time YOU want the power.

Not at all. In fact even Maha pointed out that I'd specifically posted that I DON'T necessarily want the power (leadership). I'm just a guy with the balls to act instead of just talk.
Weak

But please enlighten us as to why you are different?
Why do we need a leader when we are perfectly fine fighting our own battles as a collective?

Read the above sentence again. Get on board and when the numbers are up, elect a leader. I may put my hand up but I wont get all shitty if I'm not elected; my ego isnt that big. What I'm after is results. That's the missing element in what I've seen done so far; results. Not numbers, not words; results.
If someone else is chosen to lead but ACTION is the key tactic; I'll be 100% behind them in support. THAT is why I tried so hard to goad the other groups into doing something before I decided to step up again.

Now the ball is in your court: do you want results? Do you think that a lack of results after 18 months in MAG's case and years in the case of other groups is an indication that mere talk is gonne achieve results?

If you do indeed think that; good for you. In the meantime I beg to differ and will promote ACTION. If you however, think ACTION is a good idea; get on board and start generating ideas.

I would rather see a 1000 bikers speaking their own mind in genuine protest than another limp dick approach of you a few other monkeys in a room with the PM.

The limp dick in the room with politicians is pretty much the status quo; that is what I want to change. Time to at least ADD a tactic to that and get ACTIVE.

I am not going to post again in this thread until Chch has some more stability - so if you really want to pussy out, feel free to cry to mum and get my post put in PD.

I'm focused on Chch myself. I'm a Southlander in fact anmd lived in Chch for 10 years. I have many friends, business aquaintences and relatives in that city and have been trying to track them all day: good luck to you on that score.

As for the rest of you - if you feel pissed off about ACC. Think of a way to show them how pissed off you really are.
This happens when Chch is settled.

The last is a great call; that's exactly the spirit needed and I congratulate you for it. You have what it takes. Watch the therad, send a pm and keep up with some of the ideas that might suit your preferred method of protest.

[idleidolidyll]

As I understand it, MAG-NZ was launched in October 2010 - only four months ago. Can you please expand on the 18 months that you are repeatedly claiming?

The 18 months was a time frame provided to me by a MAG member. Perhaps that was from inception to registration. You'll have to take that up with them and if you feel it is of value; feel free to post here.
I'm happy to stand corrected and that would mean that the organisation, MAG, has OFFICIALLY had 5 months to achieve as compared to the 3 months Maha seems to have given me, an individual.

In the meantime, any ideas for action?

[idleidolidyll]

oohh you havent seen anything yet , you should see what they are planning to do

Even Jk is distancing himself from parts of it


Twitter , now theres a though

Thursday ,,6pm let ride by Ministers X ( insert any one who doesnt support Human beings ) drop of a well worded leaflet, toot a few horns

repeat up and down the country at random all via twitter

Stephen

Actually BRian, that's an interesting point and one that should be pointed out ad infinitum until people get it.

Key seems to have a tactic he repeats again and again: he has a comittee produce a report with outrageous calls for action and then he personally takes a stand against the most ridiculous or onerous of them in order to soften us up for what we are then led to think is a compromise. However, just as with the ACC levies; there was never a compromise; there was only a ruse to have us think we'd won something or that he is a compassionate man.

No sir, he is cunning and devious. Bikers beware; Key is not your froend and behind his smaile is a man who knows how to manipulate people and make them say thanks for the ass reaming.

I propose that just talking plays right into his game (and Smiths). ACTION is much harder to brush off.

[idleidolidyll]

I imagine most of the Government's plans may have to go on hold for a while post-quake.

Now would not be seen as a good time for protest action and would result in massive negative press for motorcyclists. Not to mention the opportunity for media space at the moment is very scant.

Again Riffer; that just plays into their hands. If they can delay us long enough, past the elction for instance, we will have to deal with a new government (whether National or Labour) and start all over again. Delaying tactics are standard fare and although Chch is a sad event, the rest of the nations bikers should not allow politicians to manipulate the agenda because of it.

I've not heard of a KB elite. Is this because I'm not cool enough?

Speaking from one inside one of the "motorcyclists representative groups" we're doing a shitload of work at the moment, to the detriment of our own personal lives, and a lot of it we're either too busy to talk about, or there's just nothing worth reporting about.

If you're not talking about it; how can you really think you are gaining the support and trust of bikers that you're achieveing anything?
How long must we wait? Until after the election?
Nope; Time for ACTION Now!

Some people's attitudes in TPTB ARE changing; some aren't. But one thing is happening - amongst TPTB there is emerging a grudging respect for motorcyclists and maybe, just maybe a growing perception that we're not all temporary citizens intent on all killing ourselves.

Nice opinion; hope you're right. However, no evidnce of that seems evident. All I've really noticed is a pittance thrown toward a committee that will be spent and dismissed in due course with perhaps a few crumbs thrown for the minions to devour.
Trusing that politicians words indicate they are coming around is a bit like trusting that crocodile to ferry you across the river in safety.

We've got a long way to go. And along the way there will most likely be a need for protest, confrontation and civil disobedience if all other steps fail. But at the moment there is more progress being made behind the scenes than at any other time in the last decade and it could all very easily turn to custard with inappropriately-timed protest actions.

Wrong; the time for protest and ACTION is NOW. Well before the election. That's the problem; the extant biker groups have been telling us to do nothing for ages and to leave it to them. The result? Read above.

[BoristheBiter]

And in 12 months time we can all see what you will sorted out as well, IMHO nothing.

You cry and wine about the government this, government that, and think that it will change if someone else gets into power, it wont, and if Labour gets in it will only get worse, unless of course you are on the dole or want some hand out.

I commend you on your stance and passion behind it but you are very naive to think that we are a big enough group, even if we stand together, to change much if anything.

"The fact is that government and council policies are effectively killing us, driving us off the road and silencing our voices"quote from your earlier post
Why do you believe this? what has been done to confirm this is what they want?

And to end, i think there are more important things to worry about in NZ at this present time then if the government is trying to get rid of bikers, and i guess all the fellow bikers in CHCH couldn't give a rats arse about right now either.

[Fatt Max]

Again Riffer; that just plays into their hands. If they can delay us long enough, past the elction for instance, we will have to deal with a new government (whether National or Labour) and start all over again. Delaying tactics are standard fare and although Chch is a sad event, the rest of the nations bikers should not allow politicians to manipulate the agenda because of it.


I think Riffer was displaying a bit of fucking repect here mate,the whole event is just 24 hours old and making that kind of crass and basically stupid statement is simply fucked.

Passion or no passion, there is no need for that, really......